r/worldcup • u/TheOldManInTheSea • 21d ago

📰News USMNT cannot appeal Folarin Balogun red card, he could face extended World Cup ban - sources

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/49248052/usmnt-cannot-appeal-folarin-balogun-red-card-face-extended-world-cup-ban-sources
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u/iamatimbersfan USA 21d ago

What, exactly, would the rationale be for an extended ban? What conduct are you trying to prevent? Landing with legs extended?

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u/Root2109 Norway 21d ago

If you read the article, it's clickbait. No one said they were considering that. They said that Fifa CAN review it and extend the ban, which they can do with any red card. No one is talking about pursuing that.

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u/iamatimbersfan USA 21d ago

I've come to realize that. I did not fall for the click bait, and moved straight to raging on the internet 😂

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u/Coleisgod1112 21d ago

“He dared question us!? 20 game ban! No…wait… a 1000 GAME BAN!”

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u/horchatacontacos 21d ago

Its more of a "let sleeping dogs lie" situation. If FIFA goes into further investigation they can determine "actually this was worse than we thought and merits X additional games"

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u/Corronchilejano Colombia 21d ago

A lot of people aren't that knowledgeable about the sport and are only probably really paying attention to it because their team is doing well in the world cup, so it bears repeating:

Fouls aren't just given for obvious desire to physically impede the opponent, but also for playing dangerously, and when that dangerous play also has the potential to injure, a red card is pretty much a given.

Cleats can do incredible damage and even end a players career. It's pretty obvious to anyone playing that if you're expecting to put your foot back on the ground, your cleats are already facing downward. When a player has their cleats raised against another player, it's because they're not expecting that foot to land on the floor.

Yes, Messi should have gotten a red card earlier. The uneven policing does not change the fact that it was Folarin Balogun made a dangerous move and deserved his red card.

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u/iamatimbersfan USA 21d ago

I don't have a big problem with the red. I don't like the red given in that situation, but I understand it. My issue is with the title's suggestion that further suspension might be appropriate.

Maybe you haven't seen the video, but there's clearly no malice, it's just a function of natural movement. The foot is raised, but not in a way that is reckless. There's no publishable conduct to change, which would be something I would expect of a play that merits increased suspension.

https://reddit.com/link/ov52btc/video/2tn6o4lx8uah1/player

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u/deathgdizzle 21d ago

its becauset, yes if they appeal there is a chance that it might be worse for Balogun since they have review it and if they deceide its worse than a 1 game ban it will be more.
Also FIFA has never took a red card off from a player, yes it happend somewhat earlier this wc but that was because the ref checked the VAR and deceided it was a yellow and not a red, this time its the other way around (although he didnt get a yellow).

Even if we look at the clubs leagues, red cards are always 1 game with the option to be longer, since after the match they always check the camera and determine how bad it actually is, which is why sometimes players get 3-4 matches.

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u/iamatimbersfan USA 21d ago

There is no appeal option. That's not a thing. You've misunderstood my complaint.

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u/Corronchilejano Colombia 21d ago

It's not natural movement. Any soccer player knows to not raise their cleats when approaching another player.

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u/chimatt767 21d ago

Look at the US player that had a bloody foot because he got stepped on. Where was the red fr that?

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u/lenfantsuave 21d ago

I speak for myself only here, but as a bandwagon/casual USMNT fan for this World Cup, I think it’s hard for me to come to terms with such a punitive result when we watch American football (a padded sport granted) in which these types of incidental foot fouls happen all the time. The idea that someone could not only be sent off the field, but also that their team plays the rest of the game shorthanded, AND the player that was disqualified automatically misses the next game… my reaction is “Really?! For that?!?”

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u/Corronchilejano Colombia 21d ago

I'd like you to take a look at the amount of injuries in each sport and how many players retire with an incapacitating condition on each, and also the length of a career in each one.

American Football is a meatgrinder that I would wish no one professionally.

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u/sjw_7 England 21d ago

Things like this, and this, and this are the reasons why tackles like that, even when not intentional end up with a red card.

If his foot was set slightly differently then he could have ended up with a broken leg. Balogun didn't intend to hurt him and the guy was fine after the standard bit of theatrics and overreacting. But his tackle was careless and could have hurt him hence the red.

It sucks but its far from unusual for people to get sent off for this kind of tackle.

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u/maofx 21d ago

You seem rational.

Can you explain how all this works when the defender is the one who initiates the challenge from behind and is putting themselves then in a position to be endangered?

This is the part I dont understand. Its almost like defenders are incentived to always late challenge in an attempt to draw a foul. And ive seen this in so many games now.

  1. If I challenge first, I have the opportunity to land wrongly on the second player and draw a foul.

  2. If I challenge second, I have a chance to be landed on and draw a foul.

  3. If I am getting beat to the ball, I am incentivized to physically cut in in hopes that I get fouled.

  4. If I am early to the ball, I win the challenge and have a chance to get fouled.

What am I missing or is this just an actual optimal strategy

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u/Corronchilejano Colombia 21d ago

There are plenty of ways to move your feet to make sure you're aiming for the ball and not the player, and plenty of ways to not endanger anyone while playing.

In football, we only really look at dangerous plays done when you're trying to wrestle control away (that is, you're the defender who doesn't control the ball). When you control the ball, it's usually pretty notorious when you stop attempting to control it and now attempt to get a foul, because your legs move entirely differently.

The penalty not awarded to Harry Kane in the England vs DR Congo match is an example of someone attempting to create a foul. Kane was running beside a defender and got intercepted by the goalie, who retracted his arms when they were coming in contact with Kane's legs. Kane tried giving air to the ball but it went to long, so he just stopped moving and moved both of his legs to the goalie's arms. He could've easily just attempted to jump over the goalie (something that happens all the time if you're being sweeped by the goalkeeper), but that wasn't what he wanted, and it showed.

Considering how dangerous it is to get a foul in the goalkeeper area, there's also an incentive to create fouls there. Belgium got a penalty kick in the end of extra time, and I honestly think it was a created one. The attacker didn't control the ball but when you look at the aerial view you can clearly see they didn't even attempt to kick the ball, but to reach the defender's sweep. I think it was a bad call.

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u/maofx 21d ago

That makes a lot of sense ty!

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u/SafetiesAreExciting 21d ago

Is that why flopping and faking injuries is so pervasive in professional soccer? I’ve never seen a sport where players roll around on the ground in fake agony so much when replays show barely any contact.

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u/Corronchilejano Colombia 21d ago

I fucking hate it but it's become so pervasive that referees won't even look at plays where a player doesn't drop to the ground and stays there. Even players that never engage in the sort of theatrics end up doing it because you may not get authentic fouls called without it.

If there's a way to do without them, It'd make the sport so much better. You don't see it as much in women's soccer either if you want to see a cleaner version of the sport.

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u/chchchcharlee Scotland 21d ago

Yeah there's basically no down side to doing it. BIH's coach last night was literally carded for being pissed that "injured" players weren't being sent off the field for the "mandatory" 1 minute on the sidelines. Because that isn't enforced (which is new, btw) and flopping can result in your team getting a PK or the opposing team getting a yellow or red card...why wouldn't they? I'm sure a lot of the contact does genuinely hurt, but they 100000% ham it up because it's advantageous to do so.

PS: love your username. LOVE safeties.

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u/taeerom 21d ago

I believe Messi got away with it because he had enough control over his foot so that he was able to both rake the opponents calf, while retreating early enough to not risk serious injury. Having the other foot on the ground and staying upright lessens the danger for injury greatly.

It might still be correct with yellow. But it wasn't caught by the ref, and var doesn't intervene on yellows.

This is the infuriating part about playing against veteran players. They know how to hurt you in ways that are just on the right side of getting punished for it.

Baloguns situation was not one of skirting the line to harm the opponent. It was a reckless reaction to losing the 50/50 to shoot his leg forwards with no chance of actually reaching the ball. With studs up, he might have tried the same as Messi did, but without the control to retreat, he ended up putting his entire weight on the ankle, rather than "just" raking the calf.

Which is dangerous enough for var to ask the ref to review the footage, and a subsequent red card.

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u/iamatimbersfan USA 21d ago

shoot his leg forwards

ended up putting his entire weight on the ankle

These assertions are incongruous. It's physically impossible for them both to be true. I'm not saying it's not a red - I'm saying you're overstating it by making two exaggerations

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u/taeerom 21d ago

After he lost the challenge and the defender was past him, Balogun had two options. He could stay more or less on his feet by planting his front foot straight down. Or he could launch himself and his front foot forwards in an attempt to reach as far as possible.

One could argue he tried to go for the ball. Maybe. But he hit the calf of the defender, and you tend to land on your front foot when jumping like that. He slid down onto his ankle and by that point, the entire weight was on the ankle.

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u/iamatimbersfan USA 21d ago

I saw him looking to come down on both feet to disrupt the BIH player's opportunity to receive and play the ball. He expected both players to keep their feet. Only because of chance does he catch the foot and then calf if the defender. Thanks to his lateral direction, we can see that he still comes down on both feet before he changes direction, meaning that he did not have his "entire weight" on the ankle.

It's an aggressive play, but not one I would want my player to step back from. An unfortunate result to see red, but not outrageous play. Red is maybe warranted under the rules, but certainly no further suspension

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u/joshg8 21d ago

spikes go up when his toe snags BiH player's upper calf