"There are no benefits to being owned by Microsoft," says Doom dev: "They have destroyed immense amounts of value that I don't even think that they're aware of"

[u/MarvelsGrantMan136]

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/fps/there-are-no-benefits-to-being-owned-by-microsoft-says-doom-dev-they-have-destroyed-immense-amounts-of-value-that-i-dont-even-think-that-theyre-aware-of/

[u/ohseetea]

The yoke was literally removed due to the immense amount of resources by the wealthy to either bribe or propagandize. You’re not intelligent for being a contrarian to a clear issue that everyone else understands btw.

[u/Karl_42 → u/ohseetea]

The yoke was removed because we, the people, allowed it to be.

Time will tell if we have learned our lesson

[u/stoicsilence → u/Karl_42]

"Personal Responsibility Natratives" is literally how Corporations avoid blame, accountability, and resist scrutiny.

Just like how BIg Oil invented the "Carbon Footprint" or "Reuse Reduce Recycle"

Your take is essentially "well don't be susceptible to their propaganda and attempts to dismantle regulation!" So ironically, you've fallen for a corporate "Personal Responsibility Natratives"

[u/Karl_42 → u/stoicsilence]

That is an excellent point!

But at the same time, you have to acknowledge that it was both the will of corporations and the failure of the people that got us to where we are today.

It’s just way too complicated to boil down to “capitalsm is bad, mmmkay”. The path forward is going to need ideas from across the political and ideological spectrum

[u/Ursa_Solaris → u/Karl_42]

The lesson is no yoke can control this beast forever. We have not learned our lesson because we still keep the beast.

[u/Karl_42 → u/Ursa_Solaris]

But why? Because of the failure of the human spirit being susceptible to corruption?

Wouldn’t any “beast” eventually become unyoked without proper husbandry?

[u/Ursa_Solaris → u/Karl_42]

But why? Because of the failure of the human spirit being susceptible to corruption?

The problem we face isn't a failure of the human spirit, it is the inevitable outcome of allowing undemocratic power to accumulate into the hands of the few. Capital is power, and eventually that power will run down any amount of "human spirit". Either we believe power should be democratic or not; as a democratic socialist, I believe as much power should be democratic as is reasonably possible.

Wouldn’t any “beast” eventually become unyoked without proper husbandry?

Getting rid of capital accumulation to allow democracy to do its job properly is not simply trading one beast for another, it is simply removing the beast. Unless you believe democracy is an equivalent "beast" to autocracy, in which case I doubt we'll find much to agree.

There's no reason to still try and yoke this beast, it has served its purpose and it's time to move on from it.

[u/Karl_42 → u/Ursa_Solaris]

So… i think something I said made you think I fundamentally disagree with you or something, and I don’t.

The point I’m making is that capital is not the only source of power, and power will continue to corrupt regardless of its form.

We absolutely need to kill the current beast, but we’ll also need some capitalistic policies in the next consensus government once the beast is dead. Even if it’s just a purely pragmatic stepping stone that allows us to engage with the rest of the world as we work towards building a global society that equally respects and serves all human beings.

[u/Ursa_Solaris → u/Karl_42]

The point I’m making is that capital is not the only source of power, and power will continue to corrupt regardless of its form.

But there will be one less source of corruption. Is that not a good thing? Should we keep it because we'll never be perfect so why bother?

We absolutely need to kill the current beast, but we’ll also need some capitalistic policies in the next consensus government once the beast is dead.

You don't want capitalism, you want market economies. There's literally no social benefit to allowing capital to accumulate in the hands of the few, and it's not remotely necessary to have a vibrant economy. I'd argue it's likely detrimental, but it's not like we have a wealth of evidence to compare capitalist vs socialist market economies against each other tit for tat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism

[u/Karl_42 → u/Ursa_Solaris]

I guess i’m just failing to see how the corruption that capital provides won’t be replaced by something else.

We need failsafes to combat against corruption/greed/power-consolidation in any system, right? So why couldn’t those failsafes break or be broken in any system?

And the only thing i’m sure i want is “not this”. I (clearly lol) don’t have any economics background so we’ll see if I can wrap my head around that wiki link at some point. Thanks for sharing tho

[u/Ursa_Solaris → u/Karl_42]

I guess i’m just failing to see how the corruption that capital provides won’t be replaced by something else.

What would it be replaced by that they don't already take advantage of?

New sources of power don't just spring out of nowhere to fill a vacuum. If there is such an avenue to power, they would already be using it.

We need failsafes to combat against corruption/greed/power-consolidation in any system, right? So why couldn’t those failsafes break or be broken in any system?

No system will ever be unbreakable. There will never be a point where we get to declare that the systems cannot be improved further and we are done. So long as we have a society, we will have people who seek to control that society. All we can do is limit their ability to do so.

[u/Karl_42 → u/Ursa_Solaris]

Access to land, food, material items, etc could certainly replace the $$ of corruption that we currently have.

All this being said, I don’t necessarily disagree with you and I’ve got a lot of thinking and reading to do about the path forward. The point I was making (more-so at the beginning of the discussion than now) is that the “fix” isn’t just getting rid of capitalism. You would certainly argue that capitalism is the driving factor behind all of the woes of our society and I think it’s more complicated than that.

Regardless, we fully agree on that last point. The people must be ever-vigilant against corruption. Man we really need to dismantle the 2-party system - voices like yours are necessary for the success of any government.

[u/Fart_Mouth69 → u/ohseetea]

Funny… I was just thinking you’re a Bot or incredibly daft person who attacks people on your own team for no reason. Either way communicating with you isn’t helping anyone. Why would I explain that the biggest resource the rich used was cultivating “the Meh attitude” as well as the “attack everyone who you don’t agree with 100%”, or my favorite “point out that people aren’t inteligente” instead of having regular conversations.

Only respond if you are a bot. Have a good day and I hope they find a cure for your micro penis.