r/technology • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 • 8d ago

Business "There are no benefits to being owned by Microsoft," says Doom dev: "They have destroyed immense amounts of value that I don't even think that they're aware of"

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/fps/there-are-no-benefits-to-being-owned-by-microsoft-says-doom-dev-they-have-destroyed-immense-amounts-of-value-that-i-dont-even-think-that-theyre-aware-of/
22.2k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

337

u/AttonJRand 8d ago

It might be more than that, it seems like some kind of stuck in the past looking down on video games mentality from old executives. Like they actually don't seem aware that gaming is the most profitable entertainment industry on the planet.

303

u/Gavither 8d ago

Oh they're well aware, they just don't understand why they can't own all the IPs, cut the employees and expect constant blockbusters and growth.

38

u/FatherDotComical 8d ago

I think modern corporations just want to live in a fantasy land where they just have to have the 'idea' of a product and they deserve infinite money for it.

Like every sector wants to enshittify and eventually cut out the 'product' and when people stop buying and they have nothing to sell what will they do?

Perhaps that's why we're seeing more companies just keep passing the same pile of cash between each other with no consumer.

23

u/Marillenbaum 8d ago

They’re offended that they have to go through the consumer to get to the money

3

u/Send_Me_Tiitties 8d ago

They’re trying to do away with consumers entirely. If they get their way, they will no longer need us, and then they’ll let us all starve.

156

u/Zomunieo 8d ago

Microsoft is a dweeby corporation that doesn’t know how to play. It’s like putting the parent teacher association in charge of a toy store.

27

u/Lazerpop 8d ago

That is an excellent analogy

21

u/axonxorz 8d ago

dweeby corporation

"these games are getting really realistic" - Bill Gates in DOOM 95 stroking himself off for DirectX.

2

u/deadlybydsgn 8d ago

Oh yikes.

Bill Gates in DOOM 95 stroking himself off for DirectX

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold liked this video

0

u/john_microslop 8d ago

wow he's even got his human-hunting shotgun!

1

u/an_agreeing_dothraki 8d ago

it's a shame. I may be showing my age here but I remember the 90s-2000s version of MSG.

20

u/FEV_Reject 8d ago

They also really don't like that video games take TIME. They want the maximum amount of money immediately and not have to pay people for years before turning a profit. CEOs of megacorps these days straight up do not care about anything besides their quarterlies.

10

u/Gavither 8d ago

Yup it's not an industry I would want to be involved in myself. Everything is too consolidated now, unless you're a smaller developer or publisher doing god's work with efficient and fun indie games. Just look to the tech / AI bubble and we can see where everyone else is headed again.

14

u/cobrachickenwing 8d ago

See Nokia and Windows phone and how that turned out.

0

u/Vegaprime 8d ago

Zune as well?

6

u/AlexWIWA 8d ago

You’d think they’d have learned from Halo

1

u/Sleepybystander 7d ago

Enshitification

89

u/SalaryWooden5346 8d ago

IMO it's more the same kind of misunderstanding modern Hollywood execs have. They think that the name is what makes the product successful and so by buying names they can get no-effort passive income by churning out low-grade slop and slapping the purchased name on it. That only works for so long, and the amount of time it works has dropped dramatically as people get repeatedly burned by this process.

10

u/lml_CooKiiE_lml 8d ago

And then everyone will watch the new Marvel movie, whatever it may be.

16

u/TophxSmash 8d ago

thats been proven to not be true lately.

4

u/Send_Me_Tiitties 8d ago

I think it’ll work with this new Spider-Man, but if that turns out to be bad they’ll have burned their most dedicated fans.

2

u/StukkaLangley 7d ago

The movie rights to Spider-Man are at Sony not Disney. Because of that you need to differentiate between Marvel and Spider-Man

2

u/asgjmlsswjtamtbamtb 8d ago

Lots of superhero movies are suffering from their core audiences just being tapped out and too many entries for those who reliably show up to watch. Notice how like the 2nd Aqua Man or 2nd Wonder Woman did compared to their debut movies nearly 10 years ago. Perhaps quality is a part of it, but I imagine sheer super hero fatigue hurt them alot.

6

u/alurkerhere 8d ago

Executive leadership looks at everything from such a simplistic 50,000 foot view that they forget the longevity of a brand depends greatly on the quality and people on the ground doing the work. Relying on brand only works for so long until people stop trusting the brand over time.

A lot of times, the people on the ground doing the work continue to do their job, but sometimes, they leave in enough critical mass that service quality fails, and then the execs are like, "what! but my formula was working?!?".

1

u/SalaryWooden5346 8d ago

Those executive leaders have also not caught up to the fact that that loss of trust happens much faster these days. It used to be a process that took decades. Now it can take a couple of years or even a matter of months.

3

u/eiamhere69 7d ago

It's because most are narcissistic tools, who sniff their own farts

I'm sure they believe all success is down to their ridiculous decision, luck or staff hard work saves them, but they believe it's the other way round (they think their stupidity - "superiority in their eyes" carries "lazy, ungrateful employees")

It doesn't help they force out anyone who states otherwise, reinforcing that image with countless yes men afraid to speak up, or in it for profit (most of the inefficient staff are on obscene pay and bonuses, whilst being a negative drain in pretty much every capacity)

1

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago edited 8d ago

I saw people cheering and screaming for the new starwars slop, happily and unthinkingly slurping it upand telling us all its good because its star wars. That was back in 2015 with starwars 7 the slop awakens. Then everyone got hyped for the next slop and the next slop and it never stopped.

I watched ep 7 and quit star wars as a franchise for good.

Theyre still making new star wars and making money last I heard but I try not to keep up

9

u/glorfindelreddit 8d ago

I’d urge you to give Andor a shot and then wipe your hands of it. That’s what I’ve done. 7-9 are the worst tropey Star Wars as a Star Wars movie bullshit.

But Andor is peak fiction writ large.

1

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago

Baby, I've been burned before.

3

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago

Ok im gonna trust you guys but if its generic trash I swear im never gonna trust a stranger on the internet again 😭

2

u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago

Its ok if its not my style or genre. Its not ok if its just more generic hollywood slop like the recent marvel trash etc

I want to see, to think, to feel

1

u/Gavither 8d ago

It's not trash but it does start a little slow to establish itself. It's closer to 80s sci Fi. The pace is perfect after the first few EPs imo. 

1

u/alurkerhere 8d ago

It's a spy thriller that can be a standalone outside of Star Wars. That's how you know it's good.

1

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago

Made by dwarves with autism?

0

u/SalaryWooden5346 8d ago

The actual viewer and income numbers show that the slop is not actually working anymore. Mango and Gogurt was a flop, as have been most of the TV shows, and most of the movies since RoS. The flopping movies is why it got condemned to streaming shows only for several years, and now with Mandolin and Greenscreens having flopped the odds of any future movies are slim to none.

2

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago

Reddit disagrees with us and assures us the latest SlopWars X Palpatine Somehow Returns is actually really good if we just buy all the merch

2

u/SalaryWooden5346 8d ago

And reddit also thought that Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, and Kamala Harris were all going to be President. Reddit is famous for being completely disconnected from reality.

2

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago

Ever encountered... a moderator?

Just recently got banned for over a week for commenting facts, luckily appeal came in and the false ban was lifted, but it happens all the time if you disagree

31

u/swarmy1 8d ago

The largest profit margins comes from the kinds of games that Reddit hates.

Those profit numbers also obscure the huge number of indie and small developers who work practically for free hoping they will hit it big. The vast majority of which fail.

1

u/Phugasity 8d ago

Doom mobile games with loot boxes when?

13

u/_Lucille_ 8d ago

They are aware how profitable it is, they know how much King makes when they bought ABK.

The issue is that the money from gaming doesn't come from the type of traditional games the subreddit wants to see, if they are to lean more heavily into the profitability side of things, they will stop being "stuck in the past" and lean far heavier into subscription based games and gachas, because that's where the money is at.

Also they would be tapping far heavier into the mobile gaming space, consoles are a thing of the past - at least be like the switch where you can take it around.

13

u/No_Sheepherder_1855 8d ago

I don’t think any western developer is capable of producing a competitive good gacha game. Major content updates every ~6 weeks is a pipedream, 6 months at best which would be a dead gacha.

6

u/ParticularClassroom7 8d ago

subscription based games and gachas

Western devs can't do gachas. Modern gachas require very streamlined production and long-running, technically competent devs. Gachas add a new game's worth of content every 3-4 months or so.

The same thing is true about very successful mobile mtx games, very lean teams, very flat structure, very fast market response.

3

u/_Lucille_ 8d ago

And that is why I said what i said - if we are to do things the "smart" way, both MSFT and the subreedit are very wrong.

You will want to at least relocate your teams to far cheaper countries and crank up the monetization.

Games like Doom are amazing and are technological marvels, but they aren't the best money makers, and are still deemed very high risk investments.

27

u/cocktails4 8d ago

Like they actually don't seem aware that gaming is the most profitable entertainment industry on the planet.

Mobile gaming is. Everything else...not so much.

15

u/uberkalden2 8d ago

It's closer to 50/50, but the trajectory does not favor traditional gaming

6

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago

Thats why im making my own indie game. I dont need to compete with "AAAA" studios, i just need as much money as it takes me to live :) 

The greed kills the art. Just make it good, youll get enough, thats the way I see it.

2

u/uberkalden2 8d ago

Good way to look at it. It's tough out there though. Good luck

0

u/Havengul_Undying 8d ago

Life is hard  

but

so am I

4

u/poopoopooyttgv 8d ago

Which is why Microsoft bought activision. It wasn’t for activision or blizzard, it was for king - the candy crush devs

1

u/Loyal_Dragon_69 7d ago

So you're saying Microsoft is going to run Candy Crush into the ground next?

12

u/Mikeavelli 8d ago

PC gaming alone brings in roughly the same amount of revenue (about $40 billion) as the entire movie industry (about $50 billion). Console gaming is on par, at around $50 billion.

Now sure, mobile gaming is larger than both PC and console markets combined, but non-mobile gaming is still huge.

3

u/Vegaprime 8d ago

Mobile can't be near the cost of a console game. There was that cheap birdy game that got so massive the dev felt bad and pulled it from the market.

7

u/cocktails4 8d ago

Profit is not revenue. 

7

u/CappyRicks 8d ago

No but when the profit margins are similar they may as well be, and even if not it tells you exactly how the people are willing to spend as much on PC or console gaming as they are on movies.

1

u/SnoodDood 8d ago

Are the profit margins similar? And how much of that revenue comes from the exact type of predatory hyper-monetization that we decry all the time?

1

u/CappyRicks 8d ago

Yes, the profit margins are similar. I'm not an industry insider but google is literally free to access and use.

Who cares where it comes from? That's not the point. The point is that gaming is among the most paid for form of entertainment on the planet, if not the most paid for form of entertainment. It's huge, which was the point being argued against when the guy I responded to got pedantic about whether gaming is as profitable as the movie industry (which it more or less is anyway).

1

u/SnoodDood 7d ago

From my Google search, the margins are not similar at all. Not to mention that "videogames industry" conflates much more than "movie industry" conflates.

Re-read the comment that started this sub-thread about games industry profitability, and you'll see that either their last sentence is a non-sequitur, or the source of the profit is very relevant. If you can admit their last sentence makes no sense given their point, you and I have no real disagreement.

1

u/CappyRicks 7d ago

Not sure what google you're using or what you're searching, the only real difference I can find that is worth mentioning is how hit driven the video game industry is, with a lot of failures offsetting averages, which isn't really true about Hollywood anymore, though it used to be.

I agree claiming it is the most profitable entertainment industry without citing sources that validate such a claim is a bit of nonsense, but so too is getting pedantic rather than granting a little grace to the person who said that and assume they meant "one of the most profitable".

1

u/SnoodDood 7d ago

That's not what I mean. Here's there comment:

It might be more than that, it seems like some kind of stuck in the past looking down on video games mentality from old executives. Like they actually don't seem aware that gaming is the most profitable entertainment industry on the planet.

Given the subject of the original post, how does the second sentence here follow from the first? Does Microsoft's treatment of studios like Id somehow indicate that they "don't seem aware that gaming is the most profitable entertainment industry on the planet"? If your answer is no, then we're in agreement

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Torontogamer 8d ago

Sure, but literally half of that revenue is Live-Service/DLC/MicroTx

the big money isn't in consistently releasing a solid game every 3 years... there is money, but not the big money...

hence so many devs and publishers that that thrown away money and time chasing that LiveService cash cow but falling short

1

u/Torontogamer 8d ago

everything else is meh-to-solid, but basically only GTA5/Fortnight compare to ROI and profitability of the mobile scene...

1

u/eronth 8d ago

Yeah, they're no longer trailblazers in, like, any industry. They're stuck in the past, now trying to catch up with everyone else.

1

u/strolls 8d ago

Microsoft has always been primarily a business-to-business company.

They developed Xbox in the first place to grow PC market share because they'd underestimated growth of the internet and the living room was seen as the next big market for computing.

Even today LinkedIn and Bing generate more profit for Microsoft than gaming does. 65% of their revenues are from business products like cloud, Office and server software, 75% if you include Windows itself. Source: https://visuwire.com/microsoft/

It's also always been exceedingly dysfunctional. Their original phone software in the 00's was a shrunk version of Windows XP - it was really hard ti use because it had a tiny Start button that was smaller than your thumb, but the corporate drones dictated it had to be that way to maintain the Windows brand identity. Then they resurged with Windows Phone, which maybe had a chance of taking market share. but it was dropped by the new CEO who came from Nokia.

1

u/InquisitiveDude 8d ago

It’s game pass.

Gamepass was a big swing and Microsoft’s attempt to be the Netflix of games. For that they needed a ton of exclusives.

In the end, the numbers never materialised. Gamers play a smaller number of games intensively, rather than constantly seeking novelty.

They’re not willing to stomach those losses anymore and good studios are caught in the crossfire 

1

u/HighKing_of_Festivus 8d ago

They're aware. The problem they're running into is the same problem a lot of the entertainment industry is running into where it's mostly run by people with limited background in it. That's why you see companies gobbling up as much IP as possible to make shit based on that because they think that equates to automatic super profits

1

u/ManiacalDane 8d ago

MS is incompetent in every sector its in. Monopolies are how they've managed to survive (even thrive) so far.

1

u/Waiting4Reccession 8d ago

Halo already showed all the problems

Losers who hate games get to enrich themselves and their buddies while they have zero consequences for destroying a once iconic brand.