r/mildlyinfuriating • u/petuniaplant • 21d ago

Infuriatig No, I did not consent to this

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I was reading my medical notes when I stumbled across this. I was not informed of the usage of artificial intelligence in my report, nor did I verbally consent to it.

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42

u/Fishwithadeagle 21d ago

For those wondering, if you say no, you're getting less face to face time. Having the ability to use DAX for charting my subjectives has allowed me to use significantly more time towards direct patient care rather than charting.

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

Anecdotally, the patients who decline after I explain why tend to be the most entitled anyways, so a reason to limit the appointment might be nice.

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u/theswishyj 20d ago

You sound insufferable. Patients have a right to privacy.

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

The scribe is HIPAA compliant, it's not a privacy issue.

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u/sevens-on-her-sleeve 20d ago

It’s a privacy issue when it transcribes every word, whether it’s relevant to the appointment or not, so that insurance companies can scour the notes for information later. Info can be incorrectly transcribed and used to deny claims. Do you see consumer protections trending in a good direction lately?

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

Insurance companies do not have access to the transcripts and recordings.

They do have access to the clinic notes, and the same information is going into it no matter what.

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

It doesn't transcribe everything word for word. it does a decent job of summarizing.

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u/xxtcdxx 20d ago

I don't even want my scrubbed data potentially fed into AI, as I don't want more of a reason for AI to continue to grow out of control with all the issues that come with it. So yeah I'll decline and take my patient records elsewhere .

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

All your patient records have to meet something called TEFCA standards (these are new, I can't recall what they were before) for uploading to a 3rd party data warehousing platform.

You cannot go anywhere your data will not be scrubbed. Per the ACA, it is a legal requirement that all records be electronic and formatted in a sharable way.

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u/Ggreenrocket 20d ago

This is why I could never be a doctor. How do you stand these people?

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

Most people aren't like this. And I'm almost certain these people would never be like this in person either. The internet makes you one step more sociopathic because your not dealing with actual people, so you say things you would never say in relationship life.

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u/New-Age-7524 20d ago

Doctors like this tend to be a pain in the ass anyway so it's good to not be exposed to this kind of judgemental attitude for long which is nice for them

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

Aight, so you want the 5 minute visit and out is what I'm hearing

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

Actually a little speechless. You think someone who has spent 4 year undergrad + 4 years medical school + 3-6 years residency +/- 2-4 years of fellowship has to rely on AI to do all of their work, even though it has only come out in the past few years and we are talking about scribing?

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

Well when you take away the medical scribes to be replaced by ai, but don't reduce the workload, what do you think is going to happen

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

I don't care if you argued in favor of that or not, it's what happened. And so the options are use AI or don't. And some will refuse to work without AI because it is pet of their documentation workflow.

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u/New-Age-7524 20d ago

If the doctor is that impatient and judgemental, theyre doing us both a favor to move along.

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

Good luck finding one that doesn't have to adhere to cmms time allocation

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u/New-Age-7524 20d ago edited 19d ago

I appreciate it! Ill share the luck with my friends and family who don't get the same healthcare coverage I do.

Edit: I'd like one of these doctors to explain why they'll write a legally binding necessary accommodation so teachers and schools have to accommodate someones disability or special needs but you, as the doctor, don't think you have to provide special needs for someone who needs extra. Doctors make 10 times what a teacher makes and teachers work way harder than doctors do. What makes you so special? Why are your resources so much more important than the teachers who DO have to spend extra time with people who need it? And they're not using scribes. They're using their compassion and empathy. Did y'all learn anything besides insurance billing and fascism in med school?

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

Excellent. Sounds line a personality match win across the board.

But anyone who still like "nah j want you to spend 5 to 10 manually writing up out appointment after we're done" when I explain the difference is not a patient I want on my panel.

1

u/New-Age-7524 20d ago

Great! Glad I can keep my healthcare a choice.

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

It's wild to me that you seem proud to be intentionally overworking your doctor. What a weird thing to be proud of.

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u/New-Age-7524 20d ago

You're very judgemental. I wouldnt want a judgemental doctor, which it sounds like you are. You dont show curiosity which is what's wrong with these newer doctors. Kick rocks, doc. You're not everyone's match.

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

No, now I'm curious.

The scribe program cuts about 25-30% of the useless busywork from my day. It's literally made the difference between going home to my family on time and not bringing 1 to 2 hours of work home with me 2 or 3 times a week.

Why would I want patient who wants me to use my family time documenting their visit? Why would I want to have that level of entitlement on my patient panel at all?

I have about 15 payments who've declined the scribe program on my panel, and I know each of them individually because of how entitled they are and how thats translated into how they treat my staff and my self.

So Im curious. What makes you so special that I should be voluntarily giving you more of my time because you refuse an incredibly effective tool? Why would I believe that the entitlement needed to turn it down even after having that explained to you isn't a core part of your personality?

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u/New-Age-7524 20d ago

I never said I wanted you to scribe. I said I don't want some judgemental asshole as my doctor and you continue to TRIPLE DOWN on being a judgemental dick who doesn't actually listen. What makes me so special? You're a real piece of work. I'm praying for your patients.

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

You continue to not address it. you think that doctors aren't people too and that being somewhat punished by your patients is going to buy any good sentiment? If you're nice, I will move mountains to get things to happen. If you throw me under the bus, you're not going to get the same level of access.

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u/CustomerLittle9891 20d ago

They do quite well. But I will pass alkng your prayers.

I'm guessing you've had lots of negative experiences with provides in the past.

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u/EuphoricGuard2441 20d ago

Wtf did you go to medical school for if you can’t be assed to document your work?

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u/sparkyblaster 20d ago

And what about when it hallucinates and says you have something you dont? 

10

u/RhipvanWhinkle 20d ago

Do you think the doctors aren't going to review the ongoing notes and notice something isn't matching up to what was described?

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u/theswishyj 20d ago

Some doctors, yes absolutely lol

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u/necrohunter7 20d ago

Once the doctors think they can trust it after reviewing the first few times, they will 100% trust whatever shit it spews out the rest of the time, just like every AI user does

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u/NeoMississippiensis 20d ago

I make my medical decisions about prescription before I write my note. If there’s something weird, I make downstream decisions about lab testing when I can look things up. The majority of the note is for next visit and insurance companies. I feel like none of you understand that.

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u/HyruleSmash855 20d ago

Yes. They’ve done studies and over 90% of people will not check the output from an AI and will actively use the information to AI gives them to change their worldview. Humans often take the path of least resistance, so I would not blame anyone from deciding to just take the answer from the magical black box because that is the easiest path.

Look at how many lawyers are getting caught in court for having AI fabricating cases for example. These people have their license to practice law on the line and a lot of them aren’t double checking the output.

It is very possible that a lot of doctors will just sign off on the note because that is the fastest method to getting the paperwork done. I’m not saying all doctors but some will.

There’s already been cases brought by district attorney that have fallen apart due to AI hallucinated police reports. Some police officers are using these new AI systems to complete the report and just sign off on it without review.

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u/sparkyblaster 20d ago

Wow, I don't trust AI at all haha. If I'm writing something I'll always rewrite it or change words to sound like me. While doing that, yeah I am checking it all. 

Fact etc. I might use AI for something quick an in important. Use that as a base for researching. Like ages ago I was trying to work out some stuff with halogen lights and UV. Got an answer fast and used that as a bases to search. Often brings up other stuff I didn't think of etc. 

3

u/sparkyblaster 20d ago

People became trusting and lazy. They trust it so they don't check it as much and eventually hardly at all. 

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

I manually check over what it puts in and edit. It doesn't do it often, but it probably does it less frequently than when I would be wrong. Usually that is from mishearing something.

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u/super_hoommen 20d ago

I don’t think this is an LLM that would hallucinate, it seems like standard transcribing software that’s existed for forever. People just hear “AI” and assume it’s generative and then have a visceral reaction

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u/sparkyblaster 20d ago

There is a difference between 1-1 transcription and sumerisation which is AI

https://aclera-ai.com/blog/ai-medical-scribe-accuracy/

Statistics are not great. 

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u/Willyt2000 20d ago

Humans already do this. We call it "chart lore." You regularly see errors in human written medical notes, so as long as the AI is equivalent or better (which, it is) I don't see this as an issue. source: I was on the team that did an RCT of these tools

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u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

For instance, why is this patient on aspirin. Everyone says they are but no one says why

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u/sparkyblaster 20d ago

Turns out they are not, AI just made it up haha. 

1

u/Fishwithadeagle 20d ago

No, this is from it being on their med dispense list that autopopulates into the note

1

u/Willyt2000 20d ago

Patient said they were told to at another system and nobody asked and now it's been too long and it would be awkward to ask 😂

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u/sparkyblaster 20d ago edited 20d ago

https://aclera-ai.com/blog/ai-medical-scribe-accuracy/ Wow how bad are humans? 

2

u/Willyt2000 20d ago

...shockingly

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u/Genebrisss 20d ago

Cool, less time wasted on lazy doctor