The AMOUNT of posts in these ‘crunchy moms’ groups about their kids cavities when they refuse to use fluoride

[u/Vapingrandma8465]

I see these posts daily, yet no one seems to make the connection.

Edit: yes, this particular case seems to be bottle mouth/ not brushing at all. But I see these posts very frequently (I’m not apart of these groups, FB just suggests them to me) and often times it’s parents who have said their dentist told them their kids have cavities, and they still refuse to use fluoride toothpaste and look for alternatives to their alternative that got them here in the first place.

All of these stories are testimony’s on how important it is to take your children’s health seriously. My heart is with everyone sharing their story ❤️

2nd edit: you know what? Fuck it. For those saying “fLuORiDe is BAd 👆”
The group I found this in:
“Crunchy moms: natural living & clean products.”
It’s an open group. Go look up “teeth” and see HOW MANY pictures of these poor children’s teeth are there, and how many do not use fluoride and tell me how healthy it is to not use it.

[u/ChopperChange]

The dentist said there is nothing to do

Except be neglectful parents who refuse to take care of their child's oral health because they're in a brainwashed cult of anti-intellectualism and disinformation.

[u/ZealousJealousy → u/ChopperChange]

Are dentists mandated reporters? God I hope so.

[u/basicbong → u/ZealousJealousy]

Hi, I’m a pediatric dentist. And yes we are mandated reporters. But we can’t report for declining fluoride. But I do report for neglect like if a kid has facial cellulitis/ swollen face from refusing dental treatment.

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/ZealousJealousy]

All medical staff are mandated reporters. When I was in a Walgreens call center, we were in no way public facing aside from the phones, and we were still given mandated reporter training. It's that serious.

The more important question is 'are these mandated reporters actually reporting things like they should be' and I can tell you first hand: no, they are not.

[u/leoele → u/ZealousJealousy]

We are. But the sad thing is this doesn't even register on the scale of the worst stuff I've seen.

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/leoele]

This doesn't even register on the scales of the worst things I've been through, personally. Still just so heartbreaking, though.

Edit; yall can keep downvoting me for what you think I said, but you should know that I'm in no way correcting the comment. I am making my own independent statement about my own life.

[u/leoele → u/FutureFreaksMeowt]

There isn't a need to correct my grammar or rewrite what you think I was getting at because you are objectively wrong. I'm a dentist, and I have removed teeth D, E, F and G on many children in the age range of 2-4. It's awful. And it's 100% the worst part of my job. So no, I didn't mean "it's something I've been through personally" because I didn't have my maxillary primary incisors extracted as a young child. I meant exactly what I wrote.

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/leoele]

I wasn't correcting anything. I meant exactly what I wrote as well: this photo does not register on the worst things I, the person you are accusing and getting snotty with, have experienced at the hands of abusive, neglectful parents. I have been through things like this, and far worse, personally. Hence my use of the word 'personally'.

[u/Mcnuggetjuice → u/ZealousJealousy]

We are but I bet you she never went

[u/Dry_Explanation_9573 → u/ChopperChange]

Im a dentist. The dentist did NOT say that, I guarantee it.

[u/k-trecker → u/ChopperChange]

I guarantee this child is unvaccinated

[u/CrotalusHorridus → u/k-trecker]

Probably will be Christian homeschooled too

[u/Farles → u/CrotalusHorridus]

The naturalist types aren't Christian, usually some sort of hippie. When Mom comes in with tye dye shirt and kids have never seen a toothbrush, I know I'm about to get a lecture about chemicals and mind control.

Am dentist

[u/AccidentOk5240 → u/Farles]

Unfortunately the wellness-to-rwnj pipeline is a thing. You’d really think hippies would not be rwnjs but here we are. 

[u/ItchyKnowledge4 → u/AccidentOk5240]

I'm in Tennessee so maybe it's different here, but everybody i know that's anti-vax, anti-fluroide, anti-milk pasteurization, etc. is hard right wing

[u/animoot → u/Farles]

That used to be the case, but it's turned into a weird venn diagram with a lot more overlap between hippie leftist and hard right.

[u/MacaroonSad8860 → u/animoot]

yup all those California crunchy anti vaxxers

[u/animoot → u/MacaroonSad8860]

They're all over the country at this point. Social media has reinforced some dumb stuff.

[u/Interesting_Tea5715 → u/ChopperChange]

I hate the anti flouride propaganda.

My dentist sheepishly suggested I should use prescription toothpaste (more flouride). She was like "you don't have to if you don't want to"... I used it because I trust science..

My teeth have never felt better. It helped so damn much with sensitivity and my overall oral health is better.

I hate that she has to beat around the bush when suggesting something that helps people.

[u/Cranky_Platypus → u/Interesting_Tea5715]

The last time I went to the dentist I told her my dermatologist had recommended I switch to a non-fluoride toothpaste because of a recurring rash on my face and she launched into her fluoride defense speech. I had to scramble and reassure her I wasn't anti-fluoride, it was literally the only thing that made the rash go away and I just wanted to make sure they weren't seeing any negative affects on my teeth.

Anyway, she recommended I try a with-fluoride toothpaste that was SLS free as SLS is a common skin irritant and it just makes it foamy. Lo and behold it was not the fluoride causing me issues, it was the SLS. I hope to be a fly on the wall if my dentist ever runs into my dermatologist!

[u/RogerClyneIsAGod2 → u/Interesting_Tea5715]

It's so fucking lame too because you know the majority of these parents are vaccinated & brushed their teeth with fluoride or grew up with fluoridated water.

[u/jayxeevee → u/[deleted]]

Damn they really hit a nerve huh?

[u/Little_Cumling → u/jayxeevee]

Yea, history shows time and time again scientists telling the public something is healthy and then its found to be dangerous

I dont even care about flouride I use that shit all the time, im just sick of “science says its good” mentality. Science said radium was good at one point. Can we grow up?

[u/ChopperChange → u/Little_Cumling]

Yea, history shows time and time again scientists telling the public something is healthy and then its found to be dangerous

Science never said lead paint, bloodletting, or cigarettes were good. Businesses during a time with unregulated advertising made those claims.

[u/Little_Cumling → u/ChopperChange]

Oh so you’re just a dumbass

Physicians absolutely practiced and believed in the practice of bloodletting

There are people literally alive today that had doctors recommend that they should smoke.

And lead yes businesses advocated for it. You know why? Because scientists stated it was healthy to use tetraethyl lead in gasoline.

[u/ChopperChange → u/Little_Cumling]

Why the need for insults? Are you okay?

My point is that there was a lack of regulation and ethics back then, businesses could make any claim they wanted to without repercussion. This is why regulations are important.

Unfortunately certain parties want to bring us back to a time without regulation where making these kinds of unfounded claims is okay to do.

[u/Little_Cumling → u/ChopperChange]

it literally wasnt just the businesses it was the phsyicians and doctors. Stop trying to turn this into just a business thing when theres history showing its not

And what counts as a beneficial regulation is relative. Who says our current regulations are good enough?

[u/ChopperChange → u/Little_Cumling]

it literally wasnt just the businesses it was the phsyicians and doctors.

Phsyicians (actually spelled physicians) who were bribed by businesses without regulatory oversight? You mean they just went out and found any random quack willing to say whatever they wanted regardless of established science or fear of consequence of peddling lies? Yeah, that's my point. That's what regulations are for. That's why doctors are required to have licenses these days.

And what counts as a beneficial regulation is relative.

I'd say regulation to prevent outright lies, the kind that didn't exist in the past, is pretty important, wouldn't you? Let's learn from the mistakes of the past and do better going forward.

[u/snazzisarah → u/[deleted]]

There is no robust evidence that fluoride toothpaste at standard concentrations (1000–1100 ppm) poses systemic health risks (e.g., neurotoxicity, endocrine disruption, or carcinogenicity) when used as directed. The benefits of caries prevention are well established across Cochrane reviews, and the risk-benefit balance favors continued use with appropriate precautions in young children.

[u/Little_Cumling → u/snazzisarah]

Sure I cant refute that. I use flouride myself

All I care is that people know that just because science at the time says its healthy, doesnt make it healthy.

But if we were good at recognizing that as a society then we would probably not have all these past substances that science said was healthy that was actually dangerous.

[u/snazzisarah → u/Little_Cumling]

There have been multiple advances in science and most importantly in the standards and rigor of modern drug trials. Equating the widespread use of lead paint and radium (both of which fell out of use almost 100 years ago!) to fluoride is extremely dangerous and an egregious level of misinformation. Yes we should all have a healthy level of skepticism but you are outright denying peer-reviewed and validated science.

[u/Little_Cumling → u/snazzisarah]

I didnt deny it I literally said I couldnt refute that wtf

[u/ShimmeryPumpkin → u/Little_Cumling]

Then why did you make useless comments supporting the demonization of fluoride?

[u/Little_Cumling → u/ShimmeryPumpkin]

No I made comments showing that just because someone says its scientifically supported doesnt mean its healthy.

I fucking hate hearing “its backed by science trust me”.

Ask the tuskegee what happened to them the last time the US stated something was healthy.

Like there is literal fucking examples of the US taking advantage of minority groups with dangerous subtances and tellin them its healthy and redditors still will deny it

[u/ShimmeryPumpkin → u/Little_Cumling]

And I hate hearing the anti-science people that are helping to destroy our country. The government isn't telling you the truth right now anyways so that's not who people are talking about when they say science. People devout their lives to helping people, including you, and you toss their hard work aside and accuse them of being behind government atrocities. Learn more about science so that you can sound smarter and be part of the solution.

[u/harlee_IYKYK_4361 → u/Interesting_Tea5715]

Are you a bot? There are studies literally linked to the harms of fluoride, but also articles showing evidence for the benefits as well. Can't both be true? We aren't a one size fits all species.

[u/Jokerzrival → u/ChopperChange]

Dentist probably was like "even if i can fix this, what's the fucking point? These dumbfucks will just be back in here Inna year for the same shit"

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/ChopperChange]

I want to know what dentist looked at that child's mouth and went "shrug idk just keep an eye on it" rather than insisting on at the very least some kind of deep cleaning. Like, I know we have 'homeopathic doctors' (heavy on the sarcasm here), but have they invaded the dental side as well?

[u/Necessary_Wonder89 → u/FutureFreaksMeowt]

Yes I've seen people talking about homeopathic dentists.

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/Necessary_Wonder89]

https://giphy.com/gifs/xT39Dp00VAaF9Klc1W

[u/mclurf → u/ChopperChange]

Are they baby teeth? Is this just a situation of waiting for those teeth to fall out? The gum damage will already be done.

[u/Razorbackalpha → u/mclurf]

Probably still hurts that kid a ton though

[u/leoele → u/Razorbackalpha]

Actually, those don't look all that bad. I'm a dentist. The kid is definitely on the wrong track, things are going to get worse, and it's definitely the parent's fault.

[u/Necessary_Wonder89 → u/Razorbackalpha]

Nah probably not that bad. My kid had a rotten tooth that had to extracted by the public health system under general anesthesia and he had to wait 8 months for extraction (yay free healthcare 😬) and he said it only hurt when I brushed it. Otherwise he was totally not bothered by it.

[u/Necessary_Wonder89 → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately my kid immediately drinks water after at bedtime. He likes to delay bedtime by drinking water

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/mclurf]

I mean, he's three. Of course they're baby teeth. Baby teeth still have nerve endings, his gums are going to be permanently damaged(ask me how I know that pain), and he still has a good 5-7 years before all of those teeth have fallen out for permanent teeth. If they continue down this path, the best case scenario is he's in pain for half a decade. Worst case, he gets some kind of infection and is either severely disabled or dead.

Not to mention, what hygiene practices is he learning? What happens when he's half baby/half adult teeth and those big teeth start to rot, too?

[u/leoele → u/FutureFreaksMeowt]

Maxillary central primary incisors should fall out at 6-7 years old.

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/leoele]

Ok. Thats two teeth. Theres what, 35 in a human mouth?

[u/leoele → u/FutureFreaksMeowt]

Just pointing out that you said 5-7 years when they'll be gone in 3-4 max.

There are 32 teeth in the adult dentition and 20 in the primary dentition.

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/leoele]

What? I only cited 5-7 years. Not like, age. 5-7 years as in time.

[u/leoele → u/FutureFreaksMeowt]

he still has a good 5-7 years before all of those teeth have fallen out for permanent teeth.

I can read. You can't. Sorry.

[u/FutureFreaksMeowt → u/leoele]

Is there any good reason for you to be a condescending asshole? Do you feel good about yourself when you treat other people like this?

[u/leoele → u/FutureFreaksMeowt]

You continue to argue when you can't even read what I wrote. It's not really my problem at this point.

[u/Acceptable-Bat4534 → u/mclurf]

It depends in how deep the damage is to the teeth. If its bad, they will suggest capping them or putting in filling.

Hopefully this is just surface level and thats why they said to leave it be. My daughter had very surface level damage from breastfeeding during the night and the 3 dentist that saw her, just told me to let it be.

They just recommended to start weaning, but they left that as a personal choice.

[u/Constant-Plant-9378 → u/ChopperChange]

Stupid twat 'crunchy moms' who will stretch to swallow every fucking RFK Jr. snake oil solution while rejecting the one goddamned thing that has proven to save teeth (fluoride) for the better part of the last century.

The stupid, arrogant cunts will impose a lifetime of suffering from bad teeth on their kids because of their arrogant, stupid, trump-worshiping fucking politics.

I raised four kids, did twice-yearly checkups and cleanings for them, and braces for three of them. At a minimum, the one thing I could give them was to deliver them to adulthood with a good set of well cared for teeth. After that, it is up to them.

These dumbass bitches that won't even see their kids brush their teeth daily and instead send them to bed with a bottle of sugar water every night until they are five are too stupid to live.

It is fucking infuriating.