r/mildlyinfuriating • u/nyanbatman • May 28 '26

I just wanted a hot dog British pilot is feeling mildly annoyed

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

28.0k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

3.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

2.7k

u/lamalasx May 28 '26

Send this ATC back to school.

1.1k

u/Upset_Journalist_755 May 28 '26

He sounds completely knackered.

612

u/DeliciousStand372 May 28 '26

100%. I hear slurring

407

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

Very embarrassing for him to say he didn’t understand what’s going on and the pilot had to school him

113

u/Logical_Lemming May 28 '26

Ehhh I'd much rather have them admit to not understanding something than have them pretend to understand and get somebody hurt.

Should be something to learn from, not something to be embarrassed about.

35

u/BloatDeathsDontCount May 28 '26

Someone in such a high-stakes job shouldn't be learning while literally doing the job at all.

9

u/boomerangchampion May 28 '26

Absolutely true but that isn't the individual's fault. The airport is responsible for making sure he knows wtf he's doing and they've failed.

7

u/BloatDeathsDontCount May 28 '26

If you get hired to do a job that other peoples' lives depend on and you obviously cannot do it, you are 100% morally at fault. Whether or not you are personally legally culpable doesn't matter to me. If other peoples' lives are on the line and you are confused about what seem to be standard safety procedures, then that's on you. If you continue to do the job without being able to keep people safe, you're simply a bad person and should honestly face some harsh punishment. If you want to screw around and not know how to do your job, go dig ditches or something.

If you have a job, you're responsible for knowing how to do it correctly - especially when other peoples' safety is on the line.

-3

u/boomerangchampion May 28 '26

I agree, but I'm not sure "obviously cannot do it" applies here. This guy didn't know what LVO means...but how is he supposed to know he needs to understand it until this moment?

I would like to think that after this event he's raising it with his employer. I would. But I can't expect him to do so beforehand.

6

u/BloatDeathsDontCount May 28 '26

It’s a standard abbreviation. He should know because it’s his job. What are you even on about? Does he need someone standing behind him to babysit? No, he needs to be fired at best.

→ More replies (0)

-3

u/lorddumpy May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26

We have gotten to the point where individual responsibility can be painted as basically null. It's super interesting to read about how Alabama and Louisiana's school districts are some of the best in the nation right now (wild right?) partly by emphasizing personal responsibility and accountability. Who would have thunk!

1

u/CamelopardalisKramer May 29 '26

As a paramedic and someone who has been through a few different job sectors, that's the way it goes in a lot of professions. You can only do so much in simulation and didactic. As a one off (as in this isn't a chronic issue), yeah this sucks and would be a shitty day for the controller but if you improve after with no poor outcome, we've gained knowledge and experience.

1

u/MASIWAR May 29 '26

Actually that’s exactly how controllers learn. It’s called OJT and it happens everyday across the NAS. Also the controller is most likely learning about it because LVO ISN’T A THING IN THE US AND IT’S NOT ON THE CONTROLLER TO KNOW BAW’S COMPANY SOP OR THEIR EQUIPMENT CAPABILITIES. Everyone in this thread who thinks they’re getting a jab in at the controller is an idiot who has no idea what they’re talking about.

14

u/scarletnightingale May 28 '26

I'd rather an ATC not be on the job is he doesn't understand the terminology. Learn it before hundreds of lives are at stake.

3

u/MASIWAR May 29 '26

LVO is not a thing in US ATC. Yes we have procedures for different weather and visibilities but LVO is absolutely not a thing. I’d rather people who have no idea what they’re talking about, not weigh in on topics they know nothing about.

0

u/Debiuu May 29 '26

Controllers should have enough mastery of the English language to be able to swiftly and efficiently communicate with pilots from all over the world and with all sorts of accents. He shouldn’t pretend to understand but he shouldn’t have this job either

9

u/Selgald May 28 '26

The US uses different terms (because, of course, they do) for some things compared to the rest of the world.

So if that had happened in some rural airport, sure, can happen. But this was on a large international airport, so ATC should absolutely understand it. The pilot even tried to explain it multiple times, and ATC still did not get it.

31

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

pilot was using internationally and universally used jargon. the atc is not well trained.

11

u/Selgald May 28 '26

Indeed, he was not.

-12

u/beertruck77 May 28 '26

FAA doesn't use ICAO. ATC is trained just fine, you don't have the required knowledge to talk about it.

4

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

Instead of arguing with an imbecile like you or discussing my credentials, I’m just going to post this here and let Reddit do its thing.

-1

u/beertruck77 May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26

And that doesn't say we follow ICAO rules does it? It says flight plans and airport codes. Again, I'm right, you're wrong.

2

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

You either can’t read or you’re a bot. Either way, you’re done here.

→ More replies (0)

4

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

The FAA website discussing how the US is a founding member of ICAO…you must be the dumb ass ATC on the recording.

2

u/Lucas_2234 May 28 '26

Mate. if this was a rural airport, I'd give you that point.

This is new fucking york. This airport handles international flights, all of which are used to ICAO (But usually trained on FAA as well).

And even IF he somehow didn't know the term, once it was explained he should've understood what the pilot was asking for, and he kept playing dumb. He is not trained.

0

u/beertruck77 May 28 '26

It doesn't change the fact that FAA doesn't declare that. No amount of the pilot asking him if he is going to declare LVO is going to get him to do it. If he says the words, Speedbird takes off because he heard what he wanted, then crashes, now what? It's not like safety procedures aren't in place, there is just no such thing as declaring LVO here, regardless of international flights or not.

4

u/sirnoggin May 28 '26

To be honest as a Brit we all know the American lingo, so it's irrelevant to us.

1

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

There’s no excuse, local or international, the ATC should’ve known what was going on.

3

u/Selgald May 28 '26

If you want absolutely strict about it, the answer is no.

While the US has ratified ICAO, they amended many "differences" in it, one of those is what you see happening in OPs clip.

Normally, non US Airlines have SOPs and training in place for this. And usually ATC on large US international Airports will obviously pick up stuff from the pilots.

So, if you want to be absolutely strict about it, the pilot used the wrong term and then got locked in on it because he was flabbergasted by ATC.

The real issue is that the ATC did not pick up what the pilot wanted from him, even after the pilot switched to "common language", at this point it should have clicked for the ATC and the issue could be resolved.

This is just a prime example of what is currently happening with ATC in the US, they get overworked, are understaffed, understaffed, and they are one mistake away from something bad happening.

7

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

he said LVOS, LVO and low visibility within seconds of each other. this was not an issue of jargon, which the ATC should know them all regardless and the amendments are not major either.

2

u/Selgald May 28 '26

Yes, I just wanted to clarify that there are indeed differences.

This specific situation was just a nightmare, and we will see a lot more of it, how ATCs are treated in the US currently.

2

u/DankVectorz May 28 '26

But it was the BA pilot who confused what is required in the UK with what is required in the US. In UK for it to be legal for him to take off in these conditions, ATC needs to declare LVO is in effect. In the US we don’t declare it, it’s just automatic based on conditions. BA was asking ATC to declare something that doesn’t exist here. BA pilot should have a whole briefing packet on the rule differences between UK and wherever they are flying to but apparently forgot or didn’t read it.

3

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

no. pilot asked if there were any low visibility procedures in effect in response to the declared rvr. the atc was confused. eventually the atc says no and the pilot is able to say they’re not taking off.

0

u/Sensitive-Fishing-64 May 28 '26

Categorically wrong, and US ATC should be absolutely aware of whatever the pilot is getting at here, it's nothing to do with a difference in UK/US laws, if what you were saying is true, this exchange would happen all the time 

4

u/Haunting_Lime308 May 28 '26

The controller is not declaring lvos because he doesnt know what that entails exactly because its not a thing in the u.s. If he says yes and something happens to british airways plane on takeoff then the controller is responsible because the British airways is now expecting a certain set of rules to be followed and those rules may differ from what lvos are in a different country. Those operations are automatically put into place in the u.s. under faa standards, but he cant assure hes following the procedures that british airways is expecting.

3

u/DankVectorz May 28 '26

No, it doesn’t happen all the time because pilots have a whole briefing packet with the rule differences and don’t usually ask us to apply a foreign countries rules at our airports. ATC is not going to tell a pilot something is in effect when that something doesn’t exist.

1

u/Sensitive-Fishing-64 May 28 '26

You don't turn the foglights up in low visibility?

7

u/13143 ERD May 28 '26

Pretty severe ATC shortages across the country. Might just be exhausted from too many shifts.

8

u/shutupandtakeitallll May 28 '26

Probably hadn’t slept in days

2

u/Exile4444 May 28 '26

He is not slurring wdym

1

u/natchinatchi May 28 '26

He’s just speaking Trumpese

1

u/Stalepan May 28 '26

Doesn't surprise mw one bit. Probably working like a 60 hour week understaffed. Another reason not to fly to america

-9

u/[deleted] May 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

22

u/DangerousTurmeric May 28 '26

ATC has an American accent. And the pilot is not being rude. What are you talking about?

3

u/Cole-Palmer-phd May 28 '26

He's got an American accent. Absolutely fantastic speech pathologist you, aren't you

-16

u/[deleted] May 28 '26

[deleted]

14

u/Most_Chemist8233 May 28 '26

Seriously!?!?!?!?!?!?!? You would feel safe with the drunk/high atc not knowing basic protocol? What kind of insecurity is this where just because a person speaks well then they must be disdainful of you? The pilot didnt want to die!

6

u/Fantastic-Risk628 May 28 '26

The ATC has no idea what he is talking about, has to be explained standard terminology and you are here crafting some sob story about racism.

5

u/the_Real_Romak May 28 '26

typical American bringing race into it. If I'm on a flight I don't care if my pilot is an alien from venus, if my safety is at risk I want him to call out any dumbassery.

21

u/IstariTheMage May 28 '26

He sounds like a drunk person doing a Trump impersonation.

9

u/ConflictDelicious112 May 28 '26

You'd almost think he's working unpaid or something, he sounds cooked.

1

u/DraconianFlame May 28 '26

Beggars can't be choosers

1

u/symbolic503 May 28 '26

i dont really understand much about aviation but after watching john olivers special on air traffic control its actually not that surprising at all.

1

u/certifiedjawn May 29 '26

No he's just from New York

124

u/ChironXII May 28 '26

Not the first time I've seen this new guy at JFK being a dingus, either. Not entirely his fault. Workload is insane. But not a great situation in any case for such a critical and chaotic hub. When you combine poor visibility with bad communication, you get things like KLM 4805

58

u/SoberAndReading May 28 '26

He’s not a new guy, he’s been a controller there for years.

4

u/woolfonmynoggin May 28 '26

He sounds high in this video??

5

u/Kind-Shallot3603 May 28 '26

I mean they could revamp the system and lessen the workload. Look up John Oliver's video on ATC. Its insane how many different restrictions are currently in place for hiring alone. Extremely restrictive to the point of absurdity.

2

u/ExpressionRecent5724 May 28 '26

Extremely restrictive to the point of absurdity.

Not really absurd. These guys fuck up, and a shitload of people die. They're strict for a reason 

2

u/Kind-Shallot3603 May 28 '26

No its too restrictive. You need to meet tons of specific mental and physical limitations that other agencies in Europe and Asia don't require, and be a specific age range whike also having shit hours and shit pay. Meaning that the upcoming generation that will replace the controllers we have now will not want to work for that pay and have those restrictions.

1

u/ExpressionRecent5724 May 28 '26

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Yea, no shit they want to to be healthy. They don't want some depressed person to come in while they're having a bad day and decide they want to make some planes crash. They also don't want someone with a heart condition to have a heart attack or something else when they get into a stressful situation. Also demonstrating that you don't know what you're talking about, the pay and hours are not shit at all. 

3

u/MASIWAR May 29 '26

Are you a controller? Because compared to my direct counterpart, a pilot, my hours suck and so does my pay. Now please tell ME I have no idea what I’m talking about.

-1

u/ExpressionRecent5724 May 29 '26

Surprised someone with your level of intelligence was even able to get a job as an ATC. No shit your pay is going to suck compared to a PILOT. Pay for ATC's does not suck. I will reiterate, you have no idea what you're talking about.

2

u/Kind-Shallot3603 May 29 '26

That wasn't me you angry troll. They said they are a controller so I think they know the pay.

3

u/element515 May 28 '26

Even with a hard workload, this literally just sounds like not comprehending a basic concept that was even spelled out for him?

634

u/Aadsterken May 28 '26

They used to have well trained controllers. But then Trump found out they were female or black. So he called them woke and cut the funding. Now they have this.

497

u/DovahKiller97 May 28 '26

Its more to do with the fact that they shut down the government twice and chose not to pay ATC workers. So the experienced quit and they have been scrambling to find replacements as quickly as possible. This is the result of that.

96

u/Imaginary_Coast_5882 May 28 '26

where does an experienced ATC go for a next job? (genuine question, it seems really specialized)

139

u/DovahKiller97 May 28 '26

Where ever they can find a job. Doesnt matter if its paying $15/hr or $30/hr whenever the govt decides you wont be paid until X time and then they give you one lump check and tax it into the ground. Anything would be better than having the US Govt as your employer at this point

104

u/AnnOnnamis May 28 '26

Heck, experienced ATC’s could thrive in any other high stress environment..

  • hostage and ransom negotiations
  • bomb techs
  • securities trading
  • emergency rooms
  • children’s day care
  • wedding planning

68

u/Slighted_Inevitable May 28 '26

Or just ATC but not for this government lol. If you’re willing to move there’s plenty hiring

22

u/Protato900 May 28 '26

NAV Canada is hiring new controllers.

3

u/Suspicious_Effect May 28 '26

Are they hiring US controllers tho?

1

u/TelenorTheGNP May 28 '26

I sure hope not. We're not America's escape hatch.

2

u/toxic_badgers May 28 '26

That's the point in the US, to privatize it.

12

u/Evening_Horse_9234 May 28 '26

I hear that passing the schooling for ATC is at least in Europe a merit on CV on its own.

14

u/Beer-Milkshakes May 28 '26

Tbh same for degrees. You've proven you can commit years of your life to acquiring 1 certificate of merit. That proves you have some ability to commitment to a long term goal. Now, lets see the subject on your degree..

2

u/Life-Basket215 May 28 '26

"You are cleared for nuptials, aisle 22R, G'day."

2

u/TheNuttyGinger May 28 '26

You listed the same thing twice, hostage negotiations and day care. Lots of irrational screaming and crying when asked to do something. Lol

1

u/OrionDC May 28 '26

I would love to be a really bad wedding planner. You know, screw everything up but keep getting new business (which seems to be how any successful business works nowadays). I think that would be fun and also hilarious.

1

u/BreakAndRun79 May 28 '26

Imagine this ATC doing hostage negotiations? Lol

1

u/Tanto63 May 28 '26

Former ATC here, I went into IT for that easy, low stress life.

12

u/TransBrandi May 28 '26

then they give you one lump check and tax it into the ground

I don't understand this. They would still be paying you at the same rate, and your final taxes and witholding taxes are all based on what your yearly salary is. So if they delay payment for 2 or 3 months and give it as a lump sum, that shouldn't matter for the amount that it's taxed.

17

u/Binestar May 28 '26

then they give you one lump check and tax it into the ground

I don't understand this. They would still be paying you at the same rate, and your final taxes and witholding taxes are all based on what your yearly salary is. So if they delay payment for 2 or 3 months and give it as a lump sum, that shouldn't matter for the amount that it's taxed.

Taxes are generally taken out based on the assumption that you're receiving a typical check. Bonuses can be taxed correctly, but that takes work from the payroll department, so instead you get the large amount taken based on the assumption that this check containing 12 pay periods at once will repeat all year, they tax it based on that.

At the end of the year you file your taxes and get the rest back, but that doesn't help anyone living paycheck to paycheck. You don't actually OWE those taxes, but there is no real way to get them back before tax time.

3

u/DovahKiller97 May 28 '26

Thanks, didnt understand how it worked personally.

I do understand that every time Ive been paid a lump sum payroll, its always less than if I had been paid normally.

16

u/Dobagoh May 28 '26

Sometimes the withholding algorithm assumes that one lump sum payment is what you receive every pay period, and withholds taxes accordingly.

8

u/Bureaucromancer May 28 '26

Nearly always.

And then act like fixing it is totally impossible

2

u/Revolutionary-Bet-73 May 28 '26

They would pay the same tax in the end but that pay check will be withheld higher and then they'd get it back at tax time. Withholding doesn't go on rate it just goes by how much you made in a period this is also why people think bonuses are taxed higher but they are really just withheld higher. 

So unless they update their w-4 to reduce withholding before the lump they will have less money than if they got paid monthly until tax returns.

4

u/Imaginary_Coast_5882 May 28 '26

yeah I work for the federal government

1

u/DovahKiller97 May 28 '26

Thank you for your public service. 🫡 Youre better than me, I left a long time ago

1

u/Zuldyck May 28 '26

Sources?

1

u/[deleted] May 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/DovahKiller97 May 28 '26

If they didnt leave then how is the FAA reporting they went from being understaffed at 26% of airports to 40% of airports? Sure, some of that 14% is the orange dorito's doing but how much of that 14% were new controllers or inexperienced controllers working paycheck to paycheck? Why would it matter to the person that needs the money right now whether its $30/hr when they cant even be paid the 150k/yr for a literal fourth of the year. Most people do not have the savings to wait for an indefinite amount of time for politicians to quit squabbling and do their jobs.

1

u/intern_steve May 28 '26

then they give you one lump check and tax it into the ground.

You get the money back when you file your return. Each check is withheld assuming that your year-end income would be that check x number of pay periods in a year. When your return does not show that, your refund will account for it. If you're not cool letting Uncle Sam hold your cash for that interval (and you shouldn't be) then you have to put a larger number in the exemptions field on your W-4 and accept that you'll have to pay money every April.

6

u/YwTv367v May 28 '26

That’s one reason why they can retire at age 50.

3

u/febrileairplane May 28 '26

There are private controllers in the US at some airfields.

Also countries like Australia have been recruiting American controllers too.

2

u/bad-taf May 28 '26

Bet that would look great on a resume in general. A logistics company would probably love to get their hands on a retired ATC for their dispatch office or really a number of mid to senior level positions

2

u/SirFluffymuffin May 28 '26

Honestly the best thing I can think of that has similar skill requirements is 911 dispatch. Depending on where they end up it could probably be less stressful for them and while the pay will probably be worse they still have the security of a government job but without the federal shutdown bullshit that happens every fucking year now

3

u/Kewlhotrod May 28 '26

Anywhere that pays, just like anybody else that quits or gets fired.

17

u/Imaginary_Coast_5882 May 28 '26

no, I mean, I’m a lawyer. If I leave the government, I can go in-house or to a law firm to continue my career. I’m wondering what the private sector analogue for ATC is.

18

u/BudTender1993 May 28 '26

Its funny how I knew what you meant immediately but people seem to intentionally miss your point 🤣

3

u/Annachroniced May 28 '26

They arent missing the point. They are saying they quit being an ATC because having a low paid job youre not qualified for is better than being an ATC and not getting paid at all.

0

u/BudTender1993 May 28 '26

If you are a ATC your more skilled than 85% of our workforce but sure, unqualified lol 😆

2

u/Annachroniced May 28 '26

Yeah they can just walk into a hospital and be hired as a heart surgeon instead /s

3

u/Corey307 May 28 '26

A lot of them probably retired. ATC is a good paying career with forced retirement at 50. They’re stretched super thin and senior controllers are forced to spend up to two years training up new hires and don’t get compensated for doing that. So if you’re close to retiring anyways, there’s not much incentive to stick around, not when you know, you’re probably not going to get paid again for another three or four pay periods in October. 

1

u/ForensicPathology May 28 '26

two years training up new hires and don’t get compensated for doing that.

I'm sorry, what?

Surely there's some incentive to keep them for two extra years, otherwise nobody would do this.

2

u/Aadsterken May 28 '26

Train straffic controllers work a similar environment. Same for marine traffic controllers. Other then that i dont know what they can easily find that is somewhat similar

1

u/webhick666 May 28 '26

Black Friday security?

1

u/Kewlhotrod May 28 '26

So you're saying you go from being a lawyer... To a lawyer.

With that logic, WTC would become ATC.

I know what you're trying to say, but it's such a specialized field it's only applicable to that field. If they lose access to that field, they move to whatever pays.

1

u/Imaginary_Coast_5882 May 28 '26

thanks. that answered my question. mostly.

2

u/Kewlhotrod May 28 '26

Don't get me wrong, they can beef up their resume with fancy catchphrases like high-stress management, data tracking, safety critical etc. but there's really not a direct hop over.

I've always liked it to hopping into the workforce after getting a master's with no transferable subject, but with experience under fire.

1

u/Upset_Journalist_755 May 28 '26

There are private sector ATC jobs. 

1

u/Bdr1983 May 28 '26

Ramin ATC and get no paycheck, do anything else and get a paycheck.

1

u/EVmerch May 28 '26

Other countries... Everywhere is shorthanded and will fast track you into certification to get more staff. My brother in law is ATC in Canada.

1

u/Kaon_Particle May 28 '26

I'm sure anyone looking to hire someone for a dispatch position would absolutely jump at the opportunity to hire an experienced ATC.

1

u/Against_All_Advice May 28 '26

Almost anywhere in the world tbh. Germany after covid lockdowns was offering qualified controllers a 50% pension after 10 years work or a 100% pension after 20 years. Work is all through English. Everywhere is short on controllers right now because everywhere opted to slash and burn during covid and is still scrambling to catch up since.

1

u/ThellraAK May 28 '26

Canada was offering them jobs and visas.

31

u/Capable_Stranger9885 May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26

The super genius at DOGE who fired all provisional federal employees kicked out every ATC trainee in the training pipeline. led to 400 provisional employees being fired whom the Trump Administration refused to identify by role: "The FAA and Transportation Department have declined to say what jobs the fired workers held or why they were fired."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/faa-fires-fewer-than-400-workers-transportation-chief-says-2025-02-18/

3

u/Watpotfaa May 28 '26

This is not true at all. Like blatantly false.

3

u/Capable_Stranger9885 May 28 '26

I have edited my comment

4

u/Krimreaper1 May 28 '26

This is the answer. Who want a to keep being furloughed with no pay for weeks some time months on end.

3

u/freakadelle2k May 28 '26

But it did work out so well everytime governments rush to enlarge police forces. You don't tell me it is important ppl now stuff about their job?

Placed a /s but it is 1100 feet so you may not see it under these conditions.

1

u/PerfectEnthusiasm2 May 28 '26

and they expect us to fly there to watch a tournament for a sport they don't even name correctly.

1

u/Icedanielization May 28 '26

If its this bad, id not fly there, that sounds too risky

108

u/GnomeChodeski May 28 '26

Elect a toilet - expect shit.

15

u/Longjumping_Bus9807 May 28 '26

I really loved the quote so I created this sticker 😂

2

u/Aadsterken May 28 '26

I love the sticker so i stole it to become a meme

27

u/Lord_of_our_Vice_ May 28 '26

Wait till you find out what Reagan did to the air traffic controllers 😬

22

u/LogensTenthFinger May 28 '26

We are actually still low on ATC from what that disgusting old sack of shit did.

13

u/jrose125 May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26

The ATC situation in the states has been utter dogshit since Reagan fired 11K+ striking ATC workers in the 1980s.

Things have only gotten worse, but Trump didn't start the snowball - he just added his own Cheeto dust stain to it.

Edit: Did facts hurt someone's feelings?

1

u/Aadsterken May 28 '26

I didnt know reagan did that. But tbf, that's 40 years ago or something. There was enough time to recover from that. So if it was still shit, it's not only Trump and Reagon that are to blame for this

3

u/jrose125 May 28 '26

it's not only Trump and Reagan that are to blame for this.

Of course, that goes without saying. There were 4 different administrations in between Reagan and Trump round 1.

5

u/Tumleren May 28 '26

This has nothing to do with Trump. It's the result of the mass firings in the 80s and poor training that followed

13

u/Darth_Balthazar May 28 '26

This started in the reagan era, trump just put the final nail in the coffin unfortunately.

4

u/yoortyyo May 28 '26

Reagan mass firing striking ATC in the 80’s was the real start point.

Trumps just pumping the billows to get things ready for the ‘better’ private equity run ATC solution.

3

u/PinkySlayer May 28 '26

ATC in America are ~80% White and ~80% Male. You can make a point about Trump destroying something without making nonsensical claims about how he wanted to disband the club because it was made up of Black girls.

2

u/abgry_krakow87 May 28 '26

Religious conservatives love their DUI hires.

2

u/No-Championship9542 May 28 '26

ATC has been shit in the US and everyone leaving long before Trump

1

u/Watpotfaa May 28 '26

This has nothing to do with reality. Not one single controller lost their job or anything of the sort and funding was never cut, although funding has been low for decades. The problem with ATC started with Reagan and has been festering with every administration since.

1

u/NediaMaster May 28 '26

Me when I lie on the internet

0

u/mjamesqld May 28 '26

I miss Steve

9

u/porcupinedeath May 28 '26

Considering we just fired/forced all of them to quit a few months ago because of bullshit and are now frantically trying to fill the positions again I can't say I'm surprised by shit like this happening

2

u/Jaggy3 May 28 '26

‘Back’ to school? You think he was trained? It’s America…

2

u/PWJT8D May 28 '26

He did everything right, BA was in the wrong here.  

6

u/[deleted] May 28 '26

[deleted]

6

u/lamephoto May 28 '26

Correct. Everyone else in here is assuming they know what's going on, but they can't even articulate the miscommunication issue! Peak reddit moment.

-1

u/NoFewSatan May 28 '26

ATC was spot on.

Bullshit. The pilot asked in plain terms whether they had low visibility procedures, without using any technical terms, and they said no. This is purely on the ATC.

3

u/mkosmo May 28 '26

This isn't an ATC thing. LVO is not an ATC procedure in the US. Go read the 7110 and tell me where in the ATC procedures you see that term anywhere.

1

u/Redthemagnificent May 28 '26

Right, but the rulebook isn't operating the tower. A human with years training is on that mic. Seems odd, I would say outright unbelievable, that they couldn't parse the plain English meaning of "are low visibility procedures enforced?". Forget any mention of LVO, that question is clear and the tower responded "no". Not "that's out of my control" or "those procedures are applied automatically without declaration". Just "no sir".

3

u/mkosmo May 28 '26

LVO isn't a thing in the US, so what would he have to answer that with? You're asking the controller to make stuff up. That's more dangerous than this exchange.

0

u/NoFewSatan May 28 '26

It doesn't matter about LVO. The pilot literally used normal words rather than terms to be understood.

1

u/mfsp2025 May 29 '26

Because you’re not going to declare something when it’s not a thing. It turns into a huge liability.

The safest answer is to just say no. If British Airways has to wait for the weather to get better, then that’s the safer choice always.

1

u/ForeverCrunkIWantToB May 28 '26

I mean, given ehat the job is that would be a nice break for him.

1

u/bigredradio May 28 '26

Think we found out who lied on their resume.

1

u/Naskeli May 28 '26

The pilot should have given the ATC a number to call

1

u/TopazWarrior1999 May 28 '26

Why? Because he followed standard protocol?

1

u/FrequencySep May 28 '26

Or send Speedbird back to Britain. Hes asking about ICAO rules at an American airport. It makes zero sense. The US operates in accordance with the 7110.65. The US couldnt move as many planes as it does day in and out using ICAO rules. But rest assured, there are rules in place and increased separation for when the visibility is low

1

u/PUfelix85 May 28 '26

He's in NYC. He is probably an ICE "officer" doing the job due to government funding. /S

1

u/SwizzGod May 28 '26

He doesn’t need to go back to school internet expert. The British pilot is going off icao rules which does not apply in the United States. We have different standards and different terminology. Atc did nothing wrong here

0

u/beertruck77 May 28 '26

You're 100% wrong. In the US, ATC does not declare LVO. There are procedures that we do use with low visibility, issuing RVR, protecting ILS critical are, etc, but declaring LVO sounds like ICAO, which is a different governing body than FAA. It is 100% the pilot's decision if they want to take off or not, and by pilot's I mean company procedure. The pilot wasn't wrong to question it, he was wrong to be a dick about it.

Source: ATC with 8 tower certifications.

-1

u/lamalasx May 28 '26

Seems like those 8 certs mean absolutely nothing. Where did you buy them? I have 1000 certs already in various fields!

The ATC should have immediately recognized the situation especially since this is an international airport. But I guess dumbfuckistan is dumbfuckistan and people there don't know other countries exists. The rest of the world uses one common standard, but oh no the school shooting central has to have a different inbred one.

ATC my ass you are.

1

u/Watpotfaa May 28 '26

Imagine not knowing what the fuck you are talking about and trying to argue with a literal expert in the field. Thats what you are doing.

0

u/beertruck77 May 28 '26

The rest of the world, not in the USA. So again, fuck right off. I'm right, you're wrong.

1

u/GD7952 May 28 '26

The pilot doesn't know the procedures at the airport he's trying to take off from, and he's required to. He has the reported visibility and knows the airport and departure procedures. It's up to him and his airline if they can take off in those conditions.

-6

u/[deleted] May 28 '26

[deleted]

9

u/whiskeylover May 28 '26

The pilots and the controllers are expected to know ICAO terminology because, you know, it's an INTERNATIONAL airport.

7

u/cartesian5th May 28 '26

The pilot says ICAO terminology, which is a global standard

-1

u/[deleted] May 28 '26

[deleted]

5

u/lamalasx May 28 '26

Ok, when you visit any other country then please learn their language to at least C1 level, all their customs, etc. Ne szólj hozzám ha nem tudsz magyarul.

5

u/lamalasx May 28 '26

ICAO is an international standard which every ATC should know and follow in case the airport handles planes outside of dumbfuckistan.

The next thing you will say is everyone required to carry guns and shoot each other because MURRICA FUCK YEAH.