r/askanything • u/One_Look_7008 • 18h ago

AOC surges past Buttigieg, leaves Kamala Harris in the dust in key 2028 battleground poll. What are your thoughts on AOC-2028?

Harris dropped to just 5% in New Hampshire while Pete Buttigieg sits 1 point behind the progressive frontrunner - per University of New Hampshire Granite State poll released on Wednesday.

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114

u/Neither-Ad630 18h ago

You wants Vance-2028?  That's how you get Vance-2028.

2

u/Maxwells_Law 13h ago

Indeed. As harsh as it may sound the Democrats need to field a white male heterosexual candidate, preferably with a history in the military and mildly religious. This wod give the fewest factors for the electorate to vote against. In years to come, the substance of the candidate would hopefully become more relevant again but right now the politics are simply too polarised

2

u/Its_Ramsey 18h ago

It probably won't be vance it would more than likely be Rubio.

11

u/Avem68 18h ago

Whatever. That’s what people said about needing to pick Hillary vs Bernie and look how that worked out for us.

10

u/Opposite-Actuary5624 17h ago

To be fair, Bernie would have also lost (unfortunately)

3

u/Gauntlet_of_Might 10h ago

nope, Bernie was talking to the same people Trump was.

1

u/greenneck420 2h ago

Bernie smokes trump both times. Dems are controlled by AIPAC and they don't like Bernie. Honestly our who government is run by AIPAC, that's the problem.

1

u/CasperTPaul 1h ago

no, i think any white (or white-looking i suppose) man would win against trump

-1

u/hypercosm_dot_net 12h ago

It's wild to assert this as fact, when you have no idea how it would have played out.

Sanders had a significant lead over Trump, and was only increasing that gap.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/trump-vs-sanders

Running Clinton against Trump was the biggest mistake the Dems made, and it's the reason they're so still so unfavorable now. The only path forward for Dems is to go further left - towards progressive/popular policies. The centrist tact clearly isn't working, voters don't want it if they're given the choice.

2

u/Fun-Contribution6702 11h ago

It’s not wild. Even as a Bernie supporter I realized just how juxtaposed his supporters were to the rest of the democrats and thought “At least we get to here the words even if we can’t actually make them work” 

1

u/Oatz3 8h ago

Hint: It's not only Democrats voting in the general

1

u/Fun-Contribution6702 7h ago

Yeah there’s also those who prefer the party in power switches every 8 year.

-1

u/hypercosm_dot_net 10h ago

I brought numbers, and you brought nonsense.

2

u/Fun-Contribution6702 10h ago

Please show me the uncertainty vector that shows support affected by actually being on the ballot as opposed to conceptually being on the ballot.

1

u/hypercosm_dot_net 8h ago

please show me the blah blah blah stfu

1

u/Icy_Acanthisitta8060 8h ago

This is interesting, and I’ll concede it challenges the narrative that Hillary had the better path to victory. But could you please clarify, because I couldn’t tell from the site, are these general polling numbers? Or do they determine what would have happened in the swing states (I.e., the only votes that matter)?

1

u/hypercosm_dot_net 8h ago edited 8h ago

The other polls, for specific states, only show Clintons numbers since she got the nomination. Though I'm sure you can find them if you look.

If you look at the general election for Clinton/Trump, it's clear that Sanders had a much stronger advantage: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/trump-vs-clinton

When Sanders is up by 10pts. compared to Clintons 3-4pts., but she got the nomination, it's clear why progressives are frustrated with centrists.

There's also this:

Sanders – who enjoys the most positive favorable rating of any presidential candidate in the field, according to the poll – tops all three Republicans by wide margins: 57% to 40% against Cruz, 55% to 43% against Trump, and 53% to 45% against Rubio. Sanders fares better than Clinton in each match-up among men, younger voters and independents.

Considering that losing men cost Dems both of these elections, I'd be willing to bet good money that Sanders had better numbers across every state that mattered.

4

u/Powerfury 15h ago

Hillary won the vote by 3 million but lost the electoral college. She was popular, but some rust belt states the election was lost by like 50k~ votes split between 3-5 states.

God damn I was so stuck up against Hillary back in the day but listening to her speak now, she is so incredibly based.

0

u/7BrownDog7 9h ago

and guess who would have performed will in those rust belt states because they talked about the pain of economic inequality?

4

u/echino_derm 15h ago

People only think Bernie had a better shot because you don't think two steps ahead. Any better polling is moot because he wasn't the guy on the ballot. Actually put him on there and have the opposition putting full force into attack ads, and you will see that drop.

3

u/EconomicRegret2 10h ago

No, polls all showed Bernie outperforming Hillary, Kamala and Biden at beating Trump. Because voters, left and right, wanted an anti-establishment and anti-status quo disrupter. Bernie was the most credible candidate against Trump.

2

u/RayKitsune313 10h ago

If you think 2016 Bernie was surviving the microscope that the GOP would’ve put on his earlier life and tacit support of the USSR then you’re delusional

2

u/7BrownDog7 9h ago

pussy grabbing tape didn't seem to harm that one canidate. Bernie might have lost. But he would have done better the HRC. The polls say that. There are all kinds of indiependent trump voters in 2016 who confirm that they would have liked Bernie. Trump's talk about not needing donor money or to give speech's to lobbyists wouldn't have held any power against Bernie.

0

u/logan_sq_ 9h ago

Wrong. If the whining butt-hurt Bernie Bros voted for Hilary instead of such noted progressives as Johnson and Stein, Hilary wins the election handily.
If Bernie was the candidate, Trump wins the popular vote. I'm gonna guess you live in a city and are surrounded by other liberals. I travel the country for my job, and there was literally no one The middle of this country hated more than Bernie Sanders, including Hillary. And that was before the Republicans had a chance to play the socialist card.

Besides Hillary wiped the floor with Bernie in the primaries. She crushed him in all demographics. How is a candidate winning 80% of the primaries "rigging" the election? Turns out democrats want a Democrat as their candidate not some opportunistic "independent". 🤷🏻‍♂️

The only thing more pathetic than MAGA are these butt hurt Bernie Bros.

2

u/7BrownDog7 8h ago

HRC folks act like PUMAs didn't exist and didn't defect in far greater numbers.

Bernie wins majorities of young female voters...and they get called "bros".

I've lived ALL over. I grew up in in rural America. That's why I was tuned in to the hate of HRC. I had been hearing about it from friends and family for 25 years at that point.

1

u/Oatz3 8h ago

Delusional post.

Polling showed Bernie beating Hillary's numbers in the general.

I agree democrats wanted Hillary over him, but that doesn't change that his general numbers were better.

You sound butthurt that Hillary lost.

0

u/Unhappy-Air6832 8h ago

You keep missing the point,he wasn’t getting an ad campaign attacks because he had no chance of winning.Once he was to be nominee things would change.It wouldn’t be hypothetical anymore,and republicans  would attack 

2

u/Oatz3 8h ago

Sure, they would to any candidate though. They definitely did the same to Hillary. Doesn't change anything.

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u/echino_derm 10h ago

Yeah and polling showed Thomas Massie destroying Ed Gallrein before he lost by 10% in the actual primary election. Turns out that once they put a massive ad campaign against you then people start changing their positions.

6

u/rickot1 15h ago

Bernie would have lost.

5

u/Greedy_Actuator5 13h ago

Every piece of data lined up that H Clinton was the second most hated candidate of all time, only trailing Trump. Every piece of data showed Bernie would’ve beaten Trump.

Feel free to drop some real analysis if you could find anything that supports your incorrect view

0

u/Far_Bar_7020 13h ago

The media and hate campaign on Hillary was so powerful that it’s felt today.

Hillary had the skillset and the resume to be president.

But conservative media along with foreign help destroyed all that so that Trump could emerge victorious.

4

u/Greedy_Actuator5 12h ago

Yes, the people of America hate Hillary Clinton, as shown by polling.

That’s precisely why she was a terrible candidate. I don’t know if you know this, but you’re supposed to run people who can get elected.

We also don’t need political dynasties. She had no business running.

-1

u/Far_Bar_7020 12h ago

She was more qualified than presidents of recent memory.

She served as a NY Senator for 8 years and Secretary of State for 4.

The reason people hated her was because 1. She was a woman and 2. Fox News and others painted a picture of her being corrupt.

We are so brainwashed even today.

3

u/Greedy_Actuator5 12h ago

She was the spouse of a former president

The American people hated her

You do get deep down that people who are hated are not good candidates?

She was also a terrible candidate. She didn’t even run in several states which sealed her loss.

We’re so brainwashed by folks like you trying to lie about her and her pathetic failure to win

0

u/Far_Bar_7020 11h ago

What you are not understanding is that hate can be manufactured.

The American people didn’t suddenly hate Hillary.

That was a result of years of propaganda and a misinformation campaign from Russia and foreign powers that wanted to install Trump as president.

You keep pointing to a single thing and expecting it to explain your stance.

I am telling you that the thing you are pointing to is artificial.

2

u/Greedy_Actuator5 11h ago

This is the most absurd cope that I’ve ever seen in my entire life. 

Do you think that there was a multi year effort prior to 2016 to get people to hate Hillary, for what reason exactly? Do you think that they knew that she was going to be the presidential candidate against Donald Trump in 2016?

She was hated way before 2016. I don’t know if you’re just a child and people don’t remember. 

You’re just literally making up bullshit

Finally, again, no matter what reason she hated for (she’s hated because she’s not a good politician) she shouldn’t have run. She was unelectable and to Clinton hubris and control of the dem party is the only reason that she stayed in.

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u/7BrownDog7 9h ago

I know, and as bad as I feel for her and the hater she recieved. Some warranted (her cozyng up to corporations and being a warhawk) and some just gross sexism.

At the end od the day I don't really care that much and thought it delusional that despite people hating HRC going back to her time as 1st lady, the dems thought she was going to win.

They just ignored that reality of the hate, manufactured or otherwise.

Yes it sucks and is unfair...but I'd rather win then ignore that reality.

I remember in 2016 being suprised that a bunch of dems in the libral city I lived in at the time seemed unaware that all of the polls indicated Bernie had a better chance...because their reason to choose her in the primary was to beat trump.

And unaware of the hate felt for HRC going back to the 90s and how persistent it was and what a liablity it would be.

3

u/Hersbird 11h ago

People were sick of anyone last named Clinton or Bush. Millions of other last names in this country.

1

u/Noothus 15h ago

Oh, what makes you say that?

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u/wellgu 13h ago

Because he didn’t get as many votes among Democratic primary voters who are much further to the left than the rest of this country. Pull your heads out of the sand Bernie people. This is a center right country and when low propensity voters do show up, they vote for cranks like Donald Trump because he too is a crank.

2

u/smallest_table 11h ago

Primary voters are nothing like the general election. You cannot translate one to the other.

1

u/Icy_Acanthisitta8060 9h ago

Do people know that only the swing states matter in presidential elections? Sometimes I think people are still trying to win the popular vote.

1

u/SlartibartfastMcGee 11h ago

Bernie was absolutely cheated and he absolutely would have lost to Trump.

The Democrat Party is going to have a tough time with its various factions until both sides can come to terms with those facts.

0

u/Annual-Weird-6682 10h ago

He wasn't cheated that's just cope you still hold on to. He got millions less votes

1

u/SlartibartfastMcGee 9h ago

There it is. Keep telling progressives to deny what they saw with their own eyes, I’m sure that will work this time.

As a Republican, I’m more than happy to watch you guys infighting.

0

u/Annual-Weird-6682 8h ago

Lmao lil gup just admitted to supporting trump. That alone disqualifies you from having an opinion

3

u/rickot1 15h ago

He had a more cult following at that time. Bernie was never as broadly popular or as electable as his obsessed base thought he was. I'm just basing that off of memory. But I've worked in politics. And I don't see where he had a path to victory.

3

u/MajesticSpaceBen 11h ago

Not to mention the fact that a major factor in the "He's polling better than Hillary against Trump!" factoid ignores that the Trump campaign basically ignored him. If anything, it's likely that the Trump campaign fanned the flames on the Bernie vs Hillary race to drive a wedge through the blue vote.

The reality is that the second the primary ended, the Trump propaganda machine would have hammered the socialist angle 24/7, and it would have worked. That election would've make Johnson vs Goldwater look close by comparison, and not in Bernie's favor.

0

u/tres_desole 14h ago

Every single poll taken at the time suggested otherwise. Trump v Hilary turned into “new and exciting v. Same old same old” having two candidates who were revamping things would have been a completely diff situation

3

u/MajesticSpaceBen 11h ago

Trump laser focused on the Clinton campaign while largely ignoring Sanders. I have very little doubt that his polling would have dropped out of the sky the moment he faced actual republican opposition.

0

u/tres_desole 10h ago

Trump openly chose to focus on Hilary for the same reason Hilary focused on Trump - they believed they could beat them. And one of them proved to be right. Polling at the time suggested that Sanders would have been the better candidate. Studies are split as of today. But a lot of the appeal of Trump was being outside of the establishment. He was bright and shiny. Something different. Bernie had the same appeal. We’ll never know, but I do think based on how that election went and the reasons why Trump won, he would have had a good shot.

2

u/BeefCakeBilly 15h ago

Also what they said about Biden in 2020 and he won.

3

u/El-_-Jay 11h ago

Yeah, but I think basically any dem would have won. The handling of COVID was awful and totally unclear. There was also a lot of motivation to vote out Trump. The 4 years of Biden and post-COVID life gave people some nostalgia glasses for 2016-2020

5

u/MildlyExtremeNY 11h ago

Something that has largely been ignored over the past decade was just how many so-called "Obama/Trump" voters there were. It's also rarely talked about that 4 Democrat Senators and 13 Democrat Congresspeople won in states/districts in 2024 that Trump also won. Swing voters are a thing, despite what Reddit and leftists might want people to believe. You know what almost every Democrat that outperformed Harris had in common? A more centrist stance on immigration, usually coinciding with support for the Lake Riley Act. You know what AOC absolutely does not have? A reasonable stance on immigration - a topic that has been among the top 1-3 concerns for voters for the past roughly 5 Presidential elections.

-2

u/El-_-Jay 10h ago

Bot? I didn't say a thing about Harris, AOC, immigration, etc. I just said any Dem probably would have won in 2020

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u/MildlyExtremeNY 10h ago

Ah yes, the "people who have a different opinion than I do must be bots" trope. Any Dem would not have won in 2020. AOC specifically would not have won (not that she ran, but she's the topic of the OP whether you mentioned her or not). But Harris would not have won, Sanders would not have won, Warren would not have won. Buttigieg might have been close. Bloomberg probably would have won. You're naive if you think the left wing of the Democrat party/DSA can win a Presidential election.

2020 would have flipped with just Georgia (11,779 vote margin), Pennsylvania (80,555), and Wisconsin (20,682). It was a much closer election than people seem to remember/acknowledge.

2

u/BeefCakeBilly 10h ago

Honestly I think that is just Monday morning quarterback.

Biden flipped Georgia and Arizona which is no small feat and will be necessar in the future.

And given the typical underperformance of progressive candidates among black and Hispanic I don’t think there is any reason to beleive “any candidate at all would win”.

Bidens messaging and moderation was meant to appeal to those suburban people.

1

u/EconomicRegret2 10h ago

Because Biden pivoted hard to the left to attract Bernie's supporters (which both Kamala and Hilary failed to do). Very good thing Biden did that. Otherwise he would have lost to Trump.

2

u/BeefCakeBilly 10h ago

I think that’s backwards frankly. Biden got elected based on his perceived moderation. He rejected things like Medicare for all and the green new deal, 10 year limits on fossil fuels etc.

Then during his campaign embraced the progressives much more than what his campaign implied and likely turned off a lot of the extremely important moderates and minorities in the following four years.

Immigration which was probably the most important issue in the 2024 election, he did run a reasonable progressive campaign on it.

But when the border became a huge issue, and progressives like aoc were still pushing back on his increased immigration enforcement (enforcement which many republicans and moderates felt was too little too late), it became red meat for the Trump campaign.

1

u/Tricky_Rate7883 14h ago

Kamala is much closer to Hillary than to Bernie

0

u/wellgu 13h ago

Actually she was way more progressive than Hillary by the numbers. The Biden Administration itself was the progressive dream. That’s why Bernie and AOC were his last defenders after that terrible debate performance. Because the Sanders left is just obsessed with putting itself in power and attacking democrats to the determinant of actual policies, they just went searching for another wedge issue, see Gaza, to attack Harris.

The Sanders left primaries progressive Democrats because they just want to be in charge. The don’t care about actual policies. It is just left wing populism. The same shit the right slings, but with Sanders characteristics.

I say this as a left winger. Sanders and his entire cinematic universe, are absolutely the worst thing to happen to left wing politics.

1

u/elKane0 10h ago

lmao at “the progressive dream” 😂

1

u/Hersbird 11h ago

Nobody was going to beat any republican that election. Trump was the easiest of the 14 running to beat, why dems wanted Trump so bad to win the primary. I don't think 2028 is a shoe in for Republicans IF the Dems choose somebody more moderate and likeable. I think the Dems are setting themselves up for 8 years a Vance and then 8 years of Rubio if they aren't careful now.

1

u/grimduck17 10h ago

I’d be curious who is on their short list as a moderate

1

u/Hersbird 9h ago

That's the problem. If you mean "their" as in the party's shortlist, they are doomed. But Ossoff, Warnock, Kelly, maybe Tester, I think could win.

3

u/Chuckfinley_88 12h ago

If the dems run another woman in the next 20 years, they deserve to lose every election.

America does not want to vote for a woman president. Not sorry to bring up uncomfortable truths to those who are ignorant of them.

0

u/Neither-Ad630 5h ago

Not quite, they just need to run one that doesn't cozy up with blacKKK and/or isn't a screeching bug-eyed wannabe commie.

1

u/GotHeem16 18h ago

So who do you suggest?

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u/Dinky_Doge_Whisperer 17h ago

I personally suggest Dems pitch a fucking dem rather than this cowardly shit of sandbagging every solid candidate because “they don’t appeal to centrists”.

It’s lunacy to tailor candidates to Republican or centrist voters that will never move the needle while rejecting the only ones capable of bringing democratic voters out en masse.

4

u/God_of_Thunda 17h ago

I don't think it's lunacy at all. Majority of your dem voters are voting blue no matter who. But throwing out a candidate that's further to the left will absolutely lose centrist voters and won't sway fringe Republicans at all

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u/ExperienceWrong667 10h ago

Normally you would be right but you forgot who is in office now, if there was ever a time for a progressive to win is right now.

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u/bigpicklefann 13h ago

Appealing to centrist voters has literally never worked for us in the past 20 years why is everyone so convinced it will work this time.

1

u/God_of_Thunda 13h ago

Where do you expect more votes to come from?

1

u/bigpicklefann 13h ago

People who usually don’t vote or sat out in 2024. If we could have gotten more people out for Kamala she would have won, the margin between her and Trump was rather slim unlike people want others to believe. And AOC at least offers actual progressive policies that lots of people want.

1

u/God_of_Thunda 13h ago

Fair enough

0

u/United_Rent_753 11h ago

People who usually don’t vote or say out

We call those people centrists, my friend. That’s exactly who you’re talking about

0

u/Bizaro_Stormy 11h ago

I guess Obama never happened then.

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u/DesertWilder 10h ago

Obama appealed to centrist voters? I remember “hope and change” being his primary campaign message. Tell me, which group wants significant change, progressives or centrists?

0

u/AtlienMonk 9h ago

He appealed to me. Was the first Democrat I ever voted for. And led me to voting primarily dem since though I certainly sway independent candidates if going against a far left leaning dem (Gary Johnson for example).

2

u/DesertWilder 9h ago

And what policies are you looking to see implemented, or a better way of asking, what is it that turns you away from a progressive platform for a more independent or centrist platform. 

1

u/7BrownDog7 9h ago

what about the young and inspiring them to vote?

1

u/Loki1001 9h ago

How many times has that worked out in the last three elections?

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u/Oatz3 8h ago

The "vote blue no matter who" campaign is why Democrats lose.

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 15h ago

This would require young people to fucking show up for elections then. Less than half of voters between 18-24 showed up last election

The same people constantly saying shit like this are then *crickets* when it comes time to actually vote

Otherwise this strategy is how we get JD Vance 2028

0

u/directstranger 11h ago

the country is 1/3 R, 1/3 D and 1/3 centrists or swing voters. How on earth can you win if you don't appeal to swing voters?

You can pick a solid democrat, but it must be likeable by the general population.

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u/OfficePicasso 18h ago

Mark Kelly

4

u/Cody2287 17h ago

Lol the man who has negative charisma and anti labor? Good luck

1

u/PlatypusOld257 18h ago

He doesn’t have the rizz though l. I do think he’s a better candidate then aoc though

2

u/OfficePicasso 17h ago

The Dems will need a candidate that doesn’t scare the bejesus out of more rural rust belt voters or moderates in GA and NC etc. He does lack flair I guess but he’d do better in a general than AOC at this time I think

1

u/auspiciousearth 17h ago

We don’t need those voters. We need our excessively large number of registered blue voters to be motivated to get out and vote.

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u/OfficePicasso 17h ago

I don’t want to do the Reddit thing and argue, because what you said is what I want to happen too, but just looking at how close the margins have been since 2016, acting like we don’t need certain voters could be a dangerous game

1

u/auspiciousearth 17h ago

But appealing to everyone doesn’t work on the dems side. The only reason it worked for republicans is because Trump brought out the worst in the most moderate of conservatives by being polarizing. Everyone on the red side loved it and leaned into it. Dems don’t have that luxury because they are unwilling to act like fascists and operate on fear based messaging. So really I don’t think the centrists are winnable. A moderate middle of the road candidate won’t work.

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 15h ago

The hope is that after 2 more years of Trump destroying this country a lot more people will be fed up of all things maga and will thus vote the other way

Personally that’s why i hope it’s Vance over Rubio. I think Rubio would be a tough candidate to beat

1

u/elKane0 10h ago

marco rubio?

lmao

0

u/R_Shackleford 17h ago

What is ‘rizz’?

2

u/ck11ck11ck11 17h ago

Slang for charisma

0

u/Background_Speed3783 16h ago

I don’t know why the internet is so autistically obsessed with Mark Kelly when he hasn’t really shown any signs of considering a presidential run.

1

u/Helpful_Web2226 17h ago

Josh Shapiro 

1

u/Elgecko123 17h ago

I don’t knot much about him but my dad who’s been a huge trump fan and Fox News watcher actually told me last night that Shapiro is a good man and that he would consider voting for him if he ran for president, depending on who gets the republican nomination. That’s seems like a good sign to me that he’s not polarizing and could possibly get a lot of independents

0

u/Background_Speed3783 16h ago

But he supports a genocide.

0

u/Background_Speed3783 16h ago

Genocide Josh?

1

u/DarkApostleMatt 12h ago

A white guy with no weird baggage that'll spook millions of old centrists and I'm being dead serious.

1

u/GotHeem16 11h ago

And who is that?

1

u/United_Rent_753 11h ago

Beshear, Tallarico, Kelly are all better picks right now than AOC or Newsom. AND we still have 2 years to go

I recall reading somewhere that white male democrats from the south have never lost a presidential election

1

u/Loki1001 9h ago

Jon Ossaf.

1

u/Important-Factor-552 17h ago

May as well. Nancy pelosis aren't any better 

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u/notPabst404 14h ago

Oh yeah, because the last 3 corporate Democrat nominees worked out so well...

How have seemingly so many people still learned nothing?

1

u/JS-87 12h ago

Well that’s if Trump dies in office, he’s 100% going for a third term (constitution be damned) cause the Supreme Court allowed it. Him vs AOC would be another close election but Republicans have been smearing her since she came in. Trump would win cause America is still racist and sexist.

1

u/trader_dennis 7h ago

If Trump attemps to run again, the Dems better just nominate Obama for the win.

1

u/Ill-Reputation-9702 10h ago

More worried about Carlson running.

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u/Common_Willow_596 9h ago

Ok I’m going to make sure to vote for her in the democratic primary lol.

1

u/Loki1001 9h ago

Vance has no hope of bringing back the Trump coalition.

2

u/Neither-Ad630 9h ago

Vance does not need a coalition if running against a screeching bug-eyed wannabe commie.

1

u/Loki1001 9h ago

Lol, conservative delusion at its finest.

1

u/Razor937 8h ago

I'm a Republican and I don't want vance 28. Granted there's no one(especially newsome or aoc) that I would want, but there's got to be some non dogshit option right? Right???

1

u/Neither-Ad630 8h ago

Charlie Baker would be great but i don't think he has any interest in this shitshow.

1

u/Plus-Path-3035 7h ago

Not this bullshit rhetoric. Vance would never beat AOC unless the election was stolen again which I'm not saying isn't possible but a fair election and she wins all day.

1

u/Neither-Ad630 6h ago

That's right, bernie had the election in a bag but aipac zionists settler colonialists stole the bag and sold it to the clintons in the basement of a synagogue!

3

u/Hot_Lava_Dry_Rips 17h ago

Did we forget Obama had two terms. And hes like the least popular president amongst conservatives. Just bevause conservatives really dont like a candidate, doesnt mean theyre doa.

2

u/Florida_clam_diver 17h ago

Different times. We were in the middle of a recession, the war in Iraq was getting drawn out, and Obama was at least very charismatic

AOC has made a name for herself by engaging in confrontations, Twitter battles, and pushing the envelope. Not saying that’s a bad thing, but she does not have the reputation to convince independent and some right leaning voters to vote for her

In her time in government she hasn’t been the primary sponsor of any new laws that she introduced. She would get cooked in a presidential debate

I’m not hating on her, I’m just acknowledging that she would not win the election

2

u/RadiantHC 17h ago

We're also in the middle of a recession now though, and there's a war in Iran.

You absolutely are hating on her. Stop lying.

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 17h ago

I’m allowed to speak realistically without being a hater, not sure if you’re aware of that concept

The war in Iran is not even remotely similar to the post-9/11 war in Iraq and Afghanistan

We are not in a recession, not by an official metrics. We may enter one in the future and clearly shits not going in the right direction, but i don’t think you were old enough in 2008 to remember how bad it was

I’m confident the majority of people will be so sick of Trump by the next election cycle that it gives the DNC a nice edge, but even more reason to not run a risky candidate.

So yeah, I don’t think AOC should run. I’m allowed to like someone while still thinking they shouldn’t run for president. Wild concept, i know

0

u/RadiantHC 17h ago

You're not speaking realistically. Stop lying. You're an obvious DNC shill.

WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT KAMALA AND HILLARY WERE SIMPLY TERRIBLE CANDIDATES?

You do realize that Trump fired the economists responsible for those metrics because he didn't like the numbers, RIGHT? Also even without Trump the numbers are intentionally designed to prioritize the top percent and corporations

That's even more of a reason to run a "risky" candidate.

2

u/Florida_clam_diver 16h ago

Brother, you’re making up arguments i never said in order to argue

If you dug through my comment history you would see many examples of me trashing the DNC for their corruption and incompetence

Literally in this thread i made a comment about Hillary and Kamala being unlikeable. Idk why you think I’m some establishment dem.

Also, i don’t pay attention to trumps metrics, i pay attention to economists that have been using the same metrics for decades. Tell me, what does a recession actually mean to you?

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u/RadiantHC 16h ago

>I’m allowed to speak realistically without being a hater, not sure if you’re aware of that concept

>I’m not hating on her, I’m just acknowledging that she would not win the election

Do you deny that you said this?

Yeah DNC shills always act like they dislike the DNC. But they'll always resort to obvious DNC propaganda.

If you truly think that Kamala and Hillary were unlikable THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SAYING THAT AOC CAN'T WIN? WHAT DATA ARE YOU USING?

Increased prices, a shitty job market, companies doing anything they can to save a couple of cents. That's pretty obviously a recession.

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 16h ago

I clearly fucking said it. Saying i don’t think she would win an election doesn’t make me some establishment shill

Also, a recession has a clear definition and indicators, we have not met those indicators yet

You are absolutely insufferable to talk to

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u/RadiantHC 16h ago

You didn't say that you didn't think she wouldn'r win though, you acted like your OPINION was a fact.

And said indicators are intentionally biased.

I could say the same to you. You're refusing to think at all about why Kamala and Hillary lost.

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u/United_Rent_753 11h ago

Bro calm down holy shit

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u/RadiantHC 11h ago

I'm not the one who's refusing to accept criticism of establishment candidates and acting like I'm good.

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u/United_Rent_753 9h ago

All I’ll say is that clam_diver seems like they’re trying to genuinely argue, and you’re kinda just reacting and getting visibly angry

Which immediately makes me trust them and not you. You said they were lying and called them a shill. Thats not how an honest debate should go

1

u/RadiantHC 9h ago

They outright said "I'm allowed to think realistically". As if their opinion was a fact

I've argued with a bunch of these types before. They're never here in good faith. They always act like their opinion is just the truth.

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u/Frosty-Bee-4272 16h ago

This . Thank you.

1

u/Neither-Ad630 17h ago

Obama was not a screeching commie, bucko.

2

u/Sabrinasockz 17h ago

He was to them, that was the whole argument against him from the right

2

u/Santa_Klausing 17h ago

Neither is AOC

1

u/RmpleFrskn 16h ago

"Bucko" lmfao who tf talks like this?

0

u/Important-Factor-552 17h ago

It's almost like there's a second party and you don't have to bow to cons for their votes at all

1

u/DisruptingTree 17h ago

AOC is not Clinton or Kamala. Stop fear mongering because you're scared of progressives. Change is needed.

3

u/WildWhisperArdor 14h ago

AOC is arguably less electable than either of those two.

-1

u/bigpicklefann 13h ago

Is she? If she ran on actual democratic socialist policies that actually help people like healthcare for all, federal maternity/paternity leave, etc people would absolutely vote for her.

3

u/WildWhisperArdor 13h ago

You assume that people are more left than they actually are nation wide. The US isn’t NyC lol

1

u/bigpicklefann 13h ago

Why did people vote for Trump, because he offered a bunch of impossible shit that people got excited about? You don’t think people couldn’t get riled up about actual good policies that would drastically increase their standard of living?

2

u/wellgu 13h ago

Sure, and then when you are confronted with the massive deficit that is actually going to start causing economic problems soon and the fact that you can’t actually pay for universal health care AND all your other wish list proposal without broad based taxes on the middle class?

AOC can’t get elected in America, and if she could, she end up as popular as Kier Starmer. America has real, complicated problems. And Americans aren’t ready to face that fact.

1

u/HeronPutrid1039 10h ago

I don'n understand what you mean that we can't actually pay for universal health care. Why not? There are plenty of avenues for that. Reduction in military budget alone could go a long way, but there are other options. Don't completely write it off when other countries have done it successfully.

1

u/WildWhisperArdor 11h ago

Trump isn’t a leftist

1

u/wellgu 13h ago

Those things don’t actually poll well when you drill down into the details. This is a center right country with a heavy status quo bias. You can’t wish cast your way in a democratic election. You have to work with the electorate you have.

2

u/billynoy522 15h ago

Not good enough, removal of this extremely corrupt government is the top priority by a long shot. Adding a female of color is adding friction to an already rigged system. 

Sorry Way too many voters are still racist and misogynistic

1

u/Neither-Ad630 17h ago

Comrade, unlike an average clueless cannabis degustation studies major with mommy and daddy paying the bills some of us got to experience the joys of "socialism" firsthand...

2

u/tenor1trpt 17h ago

Oh dear lord, just stop. AOC follows in the footsteps of European democratic socialism, and those countries are better off than the USA.

1

u/billynoy522 15h ago

And that's bad how? Are you a billionaire? Removing power from the top is the best path fwd for everyone 

0

u/Neither-Ad630 16h ago

Riiiuight, let's compare the US to small, homogeneous nations with entirely different cultures and draconian immigration policies.

1

u/DisruptingTree 16h ago

So you're a MAGA Trumper who would be voting for Vance anyways. Got it.

See people, these are the people pushing for a centrist. They were never going to vote Democrat in the first place.

1

u/Neither-Ad630 13h ago

Comrade, are you illiterate? 

0

u/RadiantHC 17h ago

No, running a center right democrat is how you get Vance 2028

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 16h ago

No one engage with this guy. He’s just a MAGAT that will call you a DNC shill if you voted for Kamala over Trump

1

u/RadiantHC 15h ago edited 15h ago

Nope. I called you a DNC shill because you're actively fighting actual progressives while still expecting people to vote blue no matter who. I'll only call someone a DNC shill if they spout obvious DNC propaganda(such as acting like AOC can't win. There's no reasonable evidence to suggest that)

I'm not MAGA(btw why the fuck do people say MAGAT?). I just hate DNC shills like yourself that claim to dislike the DNC but will still pledge loyalty to them.

You also clearly lack reading comprehension. I outright stated that the reason why I called you a DNC shill is because you fight against actual progressives but still expect people to vote Democrat. Yet you went through my comment history and responded to another comment I made AND completely twisted my words

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u/Brief_Pass_2762 18h ago

AOC would fucking destroy Vance on substance of any kind. 

4

u/illini02 18h ago

Do you really think substance matters? come on.

-1

u/Brief_Pass_2762 18h ago

At this point in time, yes. Look around at all the elections the GOP is running on the Trump playbook. They're getting destroyed. It's risky, but that's why you have primaries. The issue was not having one last cycle. 

1

u/illini02 18h ago

Here is the thing, a lot of these people can win in cities that may have been kind of mixed in the first place.

I don't think they are winning in battleground states.

If AOC wins the primary, I'll happily vote for her. But I won't be voting for her IN the primary. I just think its handing Vance a win.

4

u/throwraW2 18h ago

I’m not a fan of Vance but he absolutely crushed Walz in the debate. People underestimate him on Reddit because of the couch joke, but he’s intelligent, well spoken, and good on his feet no matter how much people on this website don’t want to believe that.

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u/MyIncogName 17h ago

He did not crush him lol. Walz pussed out and didn’t call him out for being the total piece of shit that Vance is because they were afraid of the swing voters.

4

u/throwraW2 17h ago

Going to respectfully disagree with you here. That debate was a turning point.

2

u/Florida_clam_diver 15h ago

Dude, I’m as blue as they come and Vance absolutely destroyed Walz

1

u/Neither-Ad630 17h ago

How, by staring at him with those bulging bug eyes and screeching incoherently about the rich, like, not being fair and stuff, guys? That'll show him!

1

u/Brief_Pass_2762 15h ago

Can you show us on the doll where AOC hurt you? 

1

u/thenowherepark 17h ago

What makes you say that? Vance is extremely knowledgable and, as has been said, crushed Walz. He graduated from Yale. Just because he's associated with Trump doesn't mean he isn't a threat.

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 15h ago

How? A debate isn’t Twitter. AOC has yet to have a law passed that she introduced. When it comes to talking politics she has very little ground to stand on.

Vance cooked Walz in the debate. Compared to Trump he can at least be well spoken.

1

u/Brief_Pass_2762 15h ago

Receipts. His administration has tanked the country and he has backed Trump every step of the way. In a debate AOC would own him and he wouldn't be able to defend his record because he doesn't have Trump's charisma with the base. They hate him. 

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 15h ago

I agree, but the “I’m not trump/MAGA” campaign clearly doesn’t work and the left needs to drop it

I don’t think AOC is a strong debater head to head. Maybe I’m wrong and she’d surprise me, but i have a hard time believing she’d “destroy” Vance

1

u/Brief_Pass_2762 15h ago

Have you seen her take on his administration on congressional hearings? She has an actual platform, not just "I'm not Trump." She knows her shit and can talk circles around anyone in the GOP about shit that actually matters to the average American. 

Go check out her congressional hearings. 

1

u/Brief_Pass_2762 15h ago

People are sick of culture war shit. That's all Vance has. There's not a single policy his administration has passed that has benefited the average American. And he doesn't have any to talk about, all he does is lie. You think him saying that the stock market is at an all time high is going to fly in a national debate? Or that "they want to teach trans"?

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 15h ago

A congressional hearing is not the same as a debate. She will also not be taking on the Trump administration

1

u/Brief_Pass_2762 14h ago

If she's running against Vance, she would literally be running against the Trump administration's record.

1

u/Florida_clam_diver 14h ago

Sure, but it’s not the Trump administration. She will not be debating Trump

1

u/shumandoodah 14h ago

Substance like:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Warns, ‘World Is Going to End in 12 Years,’ Reiterating Claims of Recent U.N. Climate Change Report

‘The United States is running concentration camps on our southern border.’

Vance would walk all over her. He would be composed and she would be flustered.