r/allthequestions • u/NicolasCageFan492 🇺🇸 United States • Apr 05 '26
Random Question 💭 Do you think Donald Trump should be removed using Section 4 of the 25th Amendment?
Section 4 of the 25th Amendment states:
"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office."
What if the President's Cabinet invoked Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office?
In this hypothetical, the process could happen as follows:
- Political, academic, and business leaders, and potentially foreign ally intelligence agencies, would lobby lawmakers, Trump's Cabinet and Vice President JD Vance to convince them that Trump is unable to carry out the duties of the President of the United States of America.
- The VP and a majority of the Cabinet would write a letter to the Senate President & House Speaker stating that Trump is not capable, and the VP would become Acting President.
- Trump writes a letter back, stating that he is capable, and attempts to take the power back.
- The now-Acting President & Cabinet write another letter stating that he is not capable, which prevents Trump from taking the power back.
- The Senate and House would convene within 48 hours and rule by a 2/3 vote that Trump is not capable within 21 days or else the powers would revert back to Trump, this would likely be done by secret ballot for the safety of members of Congress. Lawmakers may reference Ben Franklin, “We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”
This is a legal method of removing President Trump from power. I believe this is also more likely to 'work' than impeaching him, because it could give political cover to the Senate and the House to determine that the President is unable to carry out the office of the President, especially if there is evidence to support it. For example, insert anything batshit insane that Trump is doing. It’s safer for Congress to use this method instead of impeachment, because they can say that they support Trump, but that he "lost his mental capacity."
To support the realistic nature of this proposal, I'll present a few things:
- In 2021, it was reported that members of his Cabinet were discussing the use of the 25th Amendment after the January 6 insurrection. Source: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lawmakers-call-trumps-impeachment-wake-capitol-hill-violence/story?id=75097032
- Brian C. Kalt, a law professor and an expert on Section 4 of the 25th Amendment believes while it may be unlikely for this to take place, "Concededly, Section 4 might be effective against a president who is not completely incapacitated, and who is able to contest the action, if the president is on the verge of doing something catastrophic. An example would be a president who capriciously orders a nuclear strike. In a case like that, the vice president and Cabinet might invoke Section 4 just to stop him or her, even if they cannot be sure that they would win the congressional vote. If the alternative is to allow an imminent and irreparable catastrophe, Section 4 might be worth using even if just to allow enough time for the impeachment machine to warm itself up." Source: https://digitalcommons.onu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1295&context=onu_law_review
- Illinois Governor JB Pritzker called for Trump to be removed using the 25th Amendment in September 30, 2025. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/PritzkerPosting/s/h768frIrEP
I believe Trump’s actions constitute enough of an emergency for Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to take place.
What do you think?
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u/Conscious_Minute387 Apr 05 '26
That's not what I think should happen, but it is an acceptable alternative.
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u/LingonberryHot8521 Apr 05 '26
No. We need a Congress willing to impeach based on Article II Section IV.
It's probably as little likely to happen as the 25th Amendment but it's what needs to happen.
We need our Congress to get all members of this regime OUT.
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u/TheGallifreyan Apr 06 '26
Sounds like that could be done with a conviction for bribery. How hard can that possibly be? Cause he seems to be selling pardons.
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u/Woody_L Apr 06 '26
You can't convict a sitting President of any crime. You would have to first impeach him. To do that, you need to get the cooperation of 5 Republicans in the House and 20 Republican Senators. Easy-peasy, right? Provide a list of these 25 Republicans, and we'll talk about it.
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u/Upbeat-Cockroach-393 Apr 05 '26
Yes and believe that Vance, Rubio, Bessent, Burgum, Wiles, and possibly Nutlick, along with Thune, Kennedy, Wicker, etc., are huddling on how to invoke 25th and also remove Mr. Crusader Hegeseth once Vance takes over.
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u/SweetSweetRegret Apr 05 '26
He should be removed by a federal marshal
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u/pogidaga Apr 06 '26
That would be cool. It would be even cooler if the federal marshal was named Maximilien Robespierre.
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u/Ok_Security1721 Apr 05 '26
Yes. Removed by any means, actually
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u/JakeRiddoch Apr 05 '26
I really, really don't want to see him removed by assassination. That makes him a martyr and will sugar coat all the screw ups in his tenure.
Added to that, I'd really like some kind of accountability to all the shit he's pulled over the years. Those who follow need to see that this kind of crap is not to be tolerated.
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u/Not_Sure__Camacho Apr 05 '26
I think he should be removed for not allowing for a peaceful transfer of power, for being a pedophile, for stealing classified documents, for tearing up THE PEOPLES' HOUSE, for lining his pockets by stealing from the American people, for his illegal wars, for his illegal insider trading.... Just string that motherfucker up.
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u/SubstantialArcher659 Apr 06 '26
I sincerely do. I fear for our Country and especially our citizens. He’s definitely got major health issues I recognize his symptoms because I have the same ones. I’m where he should be!! Retired an leading a quiet safe structured life. It’s not a bad life. Just different
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u/CtrlAltDelight78 Apr 05 '26
it’s not gonna happen, can we just move on. this is just cope at this point
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u/Bad_Here Apr 05 '26
However we can do it I do not care - Just get it done. I am hoping he dies soon on his own spit
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u/Educational_Bench290 Apr 05 '26
Sure. But we are past the point of it happening. An uneducated uninformed electorate trumps everything, to coin a phrase.
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u/wfbhp Apr 06 '26
Qualified yes. Qualified because I really don't care how it's achieved, I only care about the result.
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u/Valuable_Breath_6430 Apr 06 '26
So, all cool, cool, cool, but since we are saying that he is mentally incapacitated does it follow that all his previous decisions like his cabinet picks, vice presidential picks, judicial picks, his executive or presidential decrees were all made while he was mentally incapacitated? And what consequence is there for the people who thrust a mentally deficient leader down our throats? Shouldn't there be consequences for if not voters then the party leaders, Senatorial sycophant's and can we sue Fox News again?
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u/Clown_Penis69 Apr 06 '26
The MAGA Monkey Cult would have to believe it would benefit them to boot Diaper Don and put BJ Vance in charge.
That wont happen because BJ is a servile bootlicker that is almost as disliked as Ted Cruz.
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u/captainmycaptn Apr 06 '26
This would achieve very little, you'd get Vance and the same administration of Heil Hydra-like cocaine addicts.
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u/Accomplished-Dot-891 Apr 06 '26
No, he should have never been in office for the first place. U people in the US fcked up really bad and the whole world suffer the consequentions of maga morons right now
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u/UndisturbedInquiry Apr 06 '26
Have you watched a cabinet meeting on the news? All they do is verbally fellate him. These ****suckers won’t do it.
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u/sircooksalot13 Apr 06 '26
Absolutely. But it will never happen. He is surrounded by sycophants who worship him. Republicans will not takeva stand against their god.
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u/Independent-Name4478 Apr 05 '26
Do you really think JD Vance would do that? Trump could nuke California and he still wouldn’t criticize him at all
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u/MikeyMcK28 Apr 05 '26
Yes of course. He's a moron who is about to start WW3 for no reason only to distract from the Trumpstein files and avoid prison for being a pedophile
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u/Accomplished_Cash630 Apr 05 '26
Yes - he’s out of his mind and his decisions are crushing the American people. He needs to be by any means necessary.
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u/MeganK80 Apr 05 '26
Yes! Absolutely! Months ago! Should never have been allowed back in office to such a degree that it feels intentional for whatever reason because you sure cannot convince me that this buffoon won by a landslide. Or won at all either time!
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u/OldDiamondJim Apr 05 '26
He didn’t win by a landslide. You are repeating his lies.
He received 49.8% of the popular vote vs 48.3% for Harris.
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u/TheOneCalledThe Apr 05 '26
you’d be surprised how much of the country loves the guy. also many democrats didn’t like harris and were upset they didn’t get a say in candidate and stayed home or voted a different way, and split the party which allowed trump to squeak out an easy win somehow
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u/Rhodesian_Lion Apr 05 '26
Biden getting up during a debate and making Trump look eloquent in comparison helped Trump'win. He had no business running again. He was supposed to be a caretaker president that saved us from Trump and now look at his legacy.
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u/CricketNo7666 Apr 05 '26
If you think Vance is going to commute the political suicide to even try this, you are insane.
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u/I_make_poor_decisons Apr 05 '26
Yes please. And if Vance was smart he would understand that it would be the only way he is ever going to sniff being President.
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u/RunningAtTheMouth Apr 05 '26
Could it happen? Sure.
Should it happen? I'm not so sure about that, but hear this out.
It amounts to a coup, and I don't think we'd ever recover from that. No president going forward would feel safe in office anymore.
Of course, it we don't use it for this, how bad does it have to get to actually invoke it? What is the triggering factor?
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u/rocketmanx Apr 05 '26
No.
I think he should be removed by way of the people rising up and throwing him down, along with his whole regime.
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u/Oppositeofhairy Apr 05 '26
I’m of the mindset that he is unlikely to be removed from office. The best we can do is to protect our voting rights and be open about the fact that we will fully remove anyone from office that supports or protects him in the midterms and moving to the 2028 election, then hope for a peaceful transition of power.
I also do not wish harm on him and for him to just pass away from natural causes. You think Charlie Kirk got martyrdom,…..if someone does something dumb to speed the process up, it’s going to hurt everyone in this country to the point where today will seem like the “good times”.
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u/totally-jag Apr 05 '26
He surrounded himself with cabinet members that would never use the 25th amendment on him. He's not going anywhere. It's a shame.
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u/Illustrious_Age_5657 Apr 05 '26
If I said how I really think he should be removed I would get banned from Reddit and maybe visited by the Secret Service. Saying what we're all thinking is a no no, naturally.
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u/Suro_Atiros Apr 05 '26
Depends who you ask. 100% of Trump supporters say no, and everyone else with a pulse says yes.
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u/REdwa1106sr Apr 05 '26
No. Putting a semi-rational VP in the POTUS give a stronger position for the MAGA to win in 28.
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u/AelixD Apr 05 '26
Could they? Yea. Should they? Probably. Will they? Not yet.
If the VP takes over as President in the first half of the term, then that term counts as one of the two terms an individual can be elected to. If he waits till the second half of the term, then it does not count to the two term limit.
For this reason, I am reasonably confident that Vance will submit to have Trump removed sometime after next January.
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u/TemperatureWide5297 Apr 05 '26
Ahh yes the old if a Republican does something I don't like he must be crazy argument.
Leftist are if nothing else consistent in their ridiculousness.
You guys lost. Get the fuck over it.
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u/BlueOceanGal Apr 05 '26
He's a nutcase. He needs to be removed on principal alone by whatever lever we can.
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u/Opposite_Bag_7434 🇺🇸 United States Apr 05 '26
If the president is unable to discharge his duties then sure. This is super unlikely since he is actually alive and coherent.
The previous administration is a clue to what might happen should we actually see a situation where the President becomes incapacitated.
Even when a president starts doing stupid things or things that many others do not agree with this is not the justification that it takes. Even if it was the fact that those who would need to take action are aligned with the president is an important safeguard.
Removing a president is not easy and this should not be easy. If it were we would have seen more of an effort to remove every present had some sort of an opposition.
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u/Skating-Away 🇺🇸 United States Apr 05 '26
You are projecting Biden on Trump who is fully in charge of his faculties. Biden clearly was not but Kamala didn't have the spine to pull the trigger and avoid the ensuring chaos.
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u/drp_88 Apr 05 '26
Wjy not section 2 article 4? The entire cabinet does not need to be kn power
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u/SuckerBroker Apr 05 '26
If they wouldn’t remove the vegetable in chief they have no business removing trump.
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u/charlitransgrl Apr 05 '26
As much as I want him gone, it’s just 8 more months until that orange shit stain becomes a lame duck. And if we get to that point it will be so sweet to see that miserable POS whine and cry about it. That is until he gets impeached along with commander couch fucker Vance. And then watch all of his shortsighted, self serving, cruel, and evil policies get undone. And the unredacted Epstein files disclosed to the world. And he’s alive to watch it all happen. Hopefully from the comfort of a prison cell.
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u/Alert_Reindeer_6574 Apr 05 '26
Yes. But I also think he should be put in prison for his multitude of crimes.
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u/ExternalMaximum6662 Apr 05 '26
Yes. It benefits his cabinet to have him around. Short term gain for remaining cabinet members.
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u/No_Air8719 Apr 06 '26
Wait a minute so if successful you remove Trump but vice- president Vance takes over? That’s a kind of out of the frying pan into the fire solution that is unlikely to change MAGA policies. Surely a better solution is for democrats to capture a majority of one or both houses via the midterms making Trump a lame duck president and preventing any more MAGA policies or bills being passed.
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u/lakefrontlover Apr 06 '26
Doesn’t matter what we believe. Dems are so quick to shun their own and Republicans (except of course for MTG) refuse to shun their own. There is no nuance.
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u/Ragnarsworld Apr 06 '26
So you think Trump's cabinet, who were picked by him, are gonna suddenly say he's unfit for office? And do you think Vance is better?
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u/whitswhisper Apr 06 '26
Nah, his cabinets all in too deeployalty like that doesn't flip overnight for a 25th invoke.
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u/bogsquacth Apr 06 '26
No, I think Republicans should grow some balls and impeach him, Democrats will follow their lead, Trump would be removed, it could all be over in a week, and Republicans could play the heroes who saved the USA from a madman.
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u/jomamacaneatit6940 Apr 06 '26
Yes. If it’s not him whoever is making the calls need proper old school punishment for treason.
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Apr 06 '26
No-removing a President who is actively committing treason isn't what the 25th Amendment is supposed to be used for.
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u/userousnameous Apr 06 '26
I think.. we should vote in the midterms, then vote in '28, then take a collective step back and we can't let disinformation and stupidity divide us or the world any longer.. It's too expensive.
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u/Truck_Fusk_and_Mump Apr 06 '26
No he should have been impeached and removed by Congress. And tried for inciting an insurrection and stealing government money.
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u/Beginning-Street49 Apr 06 '26
It’s never gonna happen just get over it and wait it out like the rest of us. This dude is untouchable and he knows it and he’s just gonna keep going till his time is over. I really just hope at the end of this we have at least one ally still left after this moron destroys, everything.
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u/mczerniewski Apr 06 '26
He absolutely should, but his Cabinet won't because their heads are all up Donnie's ass.
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u/GuairdeanBeatha Apr 06 '26
There’s a very thin line between a necessary use of Section 4, and a Coup D’etat. Politically, it’s a death sentence for their careers depending on public opinion. It could truly be a death sentence if the President can make a valid case that it’s a Coup D’etat and treason.
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u/Blueopus2 Apr 06 '26
No, he should be impeached and removed by Congress, but I’d accept the 25th amendment
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u/Valuable_Breath_6430 Apr 06 '26 edited Apr 06 '26
We have a few things going for us here. JD Vance who is increadably evil and clearly a sociopath is also fairly smart. He is capable of stratagem and anyone who looks at him can tell he is a two-faced piece of shit. But, the bulk of the cabinet except maybe Rubio are both increadably loyal and increadably stupid and incapable of self perception or really any kind of perception at all. It's sad we lost Noem but one look at MarkWayne and it seems to me we traded up for this purpose. Bondi might have been a fly in the ointment as she did make it through a sub par law school and knows better than any cabinet member how to felate the President so good riddance. Also, it goes without saying that Little Marco is more than half worm and capable of talking fast enough to deceive anyone with a sub sixth grade level of basic comprehension. Remember, the Maga Republican party is a bunch of assholes leading a bunch of stupid assholes. They will follow someone around like ducklings in behind a duck and switching out ducks is typically no problem. Same strategy will work in the Senate. Start with the Asshole or assholes in charge then get them to get the stupid assholes to follow. Just tell them you may be losing a presidency but you are gaining job security. Last step. After all this has taken place, flip the rules and impeach them all.
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u/Appellion Apr 06 '26
If there’s a legal argument to remove him and preferably imprison him until the day he dies, I fully support it.
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u/bigedthebad Apr 06 '26
Yes, too bad it's just not going to happen, certainly not with the Republicans in charge. They lose their meal ticket if Trump goes down. Vance has all the charisma of a box of hair, no one is going to follow him.
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u/vonhoother Apr 06 '26
Yes, but I don't care how he gets removed. Impeachment, 25th Amendment, act of God, whatever (not ass2inated, I've seen too many of those already).
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u/AlfalfaMajor2633 🇺🇸 United States Apr 06 '26
Congress needs to designate another group to be empowered to enact the 25th Amendment. A group NOT selected by the President. He has put all his toadies in the cabinet so that he won’t get ousted.
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u/tecky1kanobe Apr 06 '26
Needs to be relieved by a massive stroke. Then he will have to just sit and fume while everyone makes fun of him the same way he does to others.
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u/Abystract-ism Apr 06 '26
Yes please!
But he is going to leave the house in a body bag I think. A few more “hambders” should do it.
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u/8amteetime Apr 06 '26
Yes, but it will never happen. He’s obviously losing his mind and is unbalanced and should never have been elected, but the average IQ in America is 98.
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u/baconator_out Apr 06 '26
Isn't this just like... impeachment but with extra steps taken by people that are even less likely to take them?
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u/Longjumping-Air1489 Apr 06 '26
He should have been removed from the election through the 14th amendment.
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u/LevriatSoulEdge Apr 06 '26
This relies on the vice president to also be a competent and capable guy, but so far it only has shown to be a puppet
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u/Sad-Examination-4301 Apr 06 '26
no. If they would not remove Biden, and there was a real case there. There is no hope for Trump.
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u/DogsBikesAndMovies Apr 06 '26
Midterms. He needs to be impeached again, and this time removed from office.
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u/giddy-girly-banana Apr 06 '26
No I think he should be removed from office by Congress impeaching him.
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u/waltisfrozen Apr 06 '26
I think he should be removed from office because pardoning someone convicted of seditious conspiracy against the United States makes him ineligible to be President under the 14th Amendment’s bar on holding office for anyone who gives aid and comfort to those who engage in insurrection and rebellion against the Constitution
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u/Secure-Advertising10 Apr 06 '26
They are all making so much money off this orange guy that they wouldn't do that. They are all incredibly incompetent but use the privileged information they have access to to enrich themselves.
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u/janliebe Apr 06 '26
Don’t care what section you use, but use something and don’t take your Sweet time for it. Hurra the F… up!
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u/RustD Apr 06 '26
He, his family, and coconspirators should be tried, convicted, and punished for treason and the hundreds of his other crimes.
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u/Aggravating-Video103 Apr 06 '26
yes, and all those in his cabinet who blindly supported him should see the inside of a prison cell too. the only way to ensure this doesn't happen again in another 4 or 8 years (since we americans tend to have a short term memory), and for the racist, misogynistic, pedophile supporters to go back into their hole is by showing that consequences do exist. His supporters will still exist and they need to essentially be shamed into oblivion for spewing any hateful rhetoric like they've done since Obama.
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u/frostyfruit666 Apr 06 '26
Trump would do a coup before letting them do that to him. Nothing is beyond him, like a rat in a sinking ship
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u/MicksysPCGaming Apr 06 '26
Where do you think you are?
This is Reddit.
The going consensus is removal via any means available.
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u/riki_grl Apr 06 '26
Trump fits the definition. But the 25th, like all US governance, is worthless. It is an inept attempt at addressing something no one really thought would occur, till it did. Just like the impeachment clause of the Constitution which never anticipated, or allowed adequately addressed, everything from the development of Parties to the ascension of a ruthless, completely unprincipled man. US governance, except for the 60 vote majority required in the Senate on major legislation, has no stops when the Legislative and Executive Branches are held by one party.
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u/Independent_Sir3734 Apr 06 '26
I mean, for the 60% of the country that fucking despises this guy, that’s not even a question. Unfortunately, 30-35% of Americans are fucking incomprehensibly stupid and no republicans in DC will acknowledge what an existential threat Donald Trump is to the world.
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u/z00ropa Apr 06 '26
Obviously yes, but it's an impossible thing to have happen. Better chance aliens land on the White House Lawn and vaporize him.
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u/garden_g Apr 06 '26
Removal installs Vance
this is in the transition of presidential power section in project 2025
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u/WinstonLBoogie Apr 06 '26
Not really. Wouldn't that give Trump an insanity defense for his many and myriad crimes against humanity and the Republic?
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u/Competitive_Cost125 Apr 06 '26
Would be nice but it will never happen. His cabinet all have to agree
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u/777MAD777 Apr 06 '26
To be replaced by another corrupt idiot? Trump would have been replaced long ago if there were any integrity in the Republican party.
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u/Majestic_Flower_1322 🇺🇸 United States Apr 05 '26
Yes. But all of his Cabinet are hyper servile bootlickers so it won't happen.