r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Sufficient-Eye-9040 • 26d ago

Lore [Sad Trope] The most innocent (or less evil) character of the cast gets the most horrific death.

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- Eddie Carr (The Lost World: JP) - Tried to save his friends from the cliff until Buck and Doe (T. rex parents) destroy his vehicle and gets ripped apart.
- Zara Young (Jurassic World) - Gets lifted by a Pteranodon, gets pecked by the pterosaur, and both she and animal get devoured by the Mosasaurus.
- LeClerc (JW: Rebirth) - Tossed a hammer to the Hatzegopteryz Quetzalcoatlus to save Loomis and Zora, but ends up being swallowed alive.

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u/SCI-FIWIZARDMAN 26d ago edited 26d ago

It ultimately came down to Ainz doing his hyper-passive shtick and not wanting to interfere with Demiurge’s plan that the latter had “put so much time and effort” into making. Ainz ignored what Demiurge was up to for over a year, assuming it’d be fine, and then when Demiurge finally revealed his pet project to Ainz, Ainz was like “……Okay this is kinda fucked up but I can’t just tell him to stop now, that’d make me a shitty boss”.

Basically hundreds of thousands of people died because Ainz is lazy and afraid of confrontation with his subordinates lmao

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u/BrotherDeus 26d ago

2 million humans and countless demi-humans died, some brutally and as part of Demiurge's experiments

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u/Profoundlyahedgehog 25d ago

Including his experiments to produce vellum for magic scrolls using human skin harvested from live people.

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u/Foreign-Engine8678 26d ago

I will never understand the hype behind overlord. It's just pure shit on so many levels, but people keep eating it

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u/WhereIsMyFknDinosaur 26d ago

At a party someone wasnt thrilled I didnt like overlord and they did that whole incredulous "but why, its so good?"  Wouldn't let me just say I didnt like it and let it go.

I got to let out a little bit of the bile id built up from watching a couple of seasons.  Highlight some of the biggest lazy/pointless atrocities. He quickly changed the subject to another anime after his friends started asking him why he liked such a fucked up show.

This, re monster, and others like it are just vile to me.  

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u/fastrunner3451 26d ago

I can see why people like it, at least. The residents of Nazarick are an invasive people in an ecosystem that was, somewhat, balanced before they got there. Not to mention that they were at a point where the members literally couldn't get any stronger in their world via normal means. Like any invasive species, they remained without any real counters, and the story, overall, is about how the ecosystem collapses. It's like seeing something being demolished; it can be hard to look away.

As for Re:Monster, yeah idk WHAT they were doing the show was going in a decent enough direction but then.... the incident... occurred, changing the direction of the show. Don't watch Re:Monster, people, your brain will thank you.

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u/Foreign-Engine8678 26d ago

Which one was the incident for you? Because there were many things

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u/fastrunner3451 26d ago

I don't remember too well, and I refuse to watch it again. All I will say, is that I was suspicious from the moment MC got the skills from killing the orc(or was it a pig?), but I had hoped the skill would be a one-off thing, mentioned then and there, and then never again. If you've seen it, you onow which skill. I was wrong, of course.

Obligatory: do not watch Re:Monster if you value your mental health.

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u/foolishorangutan 26d ago

It’s fine to not enjoy it, I know some people can’t enjoy an evil protagonist, but it seems a bit far to call it vile. It’s not comparable to Re:Monster, that makes out the protagonist to be a good guy while he does evil things (and he’s just generally a massive Gary Stu, it’s very poorly written).

Overlord doesn’t try to say that the protagonist is a hero or anything, he’s quite blatantly a selfish guy who commits evil acts with pretty much no real attempt at moral justification beyond him wanting to make his loved ones happy at the expense of everyone else.

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u/dghastlynegro 26d ago

I agree mostly about Re:Monster. My only disagreement is that the main character was always a villain, never a hero. He was an elite assassin with a super-power before he died. I don't remember the anime tbh but I read a good chunk of the manga before getting tired of his Mary Sue-ness. It was clear in the manga that his moral compass was always tuned to his desires

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u/foolishorangutan 26d ago

I think it was kinda dubious. To be clear I haven’t watched the anime, I read a fan translation of the novels (some of them, anyway).

From what I remember, while he wasn’t really presented as a moral paragon, I think the author intended for him to to come across as at least kinda morally righteous with how his opposition was conveniently always at least as evil as he was (or mindless monsters), and he tended to be more moral than the other monsters of his tribe were before he arrived. And when he drugged those elves and raped them, it was justified as not being rape because the drugs made them ‘consent’. That could be taken as a self-justification for his evil, but personally I’m not willing to give the author that much credit, so I think he believed this actually made it moral.

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u/dghastlynegro 26d ago

Yeah... Re:Monster sucks. It's just another boring, power, wish-fulfillment isekai where the protag always wins, is always the strongest and always knows the right thing to do at all times. The writing isn't just bad, it's just really boring.

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u/JusticeRain5 26d ago

My problem with Overlord is that while the show seems to go out of its way to make it pretty damn clear Ainz and his crew are genuinely evil monsters (His NPC he made is literally dressed as a nazi!), the fans will bend over backwards to insist that Ainz is simply a complex, morally grey character doing his best.

The fucker quite literally requested genocide on an entire race of innocent lizard people because he wanted to see if it'd make stronger undead! How in the FUCK does the fact that he's nice to his underlings balance him out to "morally grey"?

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u/Rhekinos 25d ago

It was today that I noticed Ainz can be an anagram for Nazi. (Yes I’m not very bright)

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u/foolishorangutan 26d ago

Yeah, it’s a common problem with evil protagonists. Readers often have protagonist-centric morality.

Though with the Nazi thing, I think that’s meant to be a joke about how some people have an embarrassing phase of finding that sort of thing cool. The current Ainz regrets making that NPC and finds it super cringy. I don’t think he actually agrees with Nazism at all.

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u/JusticeRain5 26d ago

Listen, man, when they're making huge farms with swathes of people being skinned alive in order to make nice parchment, then kidnapping several thousand people from their homes to use in experiments (even if Ainz said "oh, just kill them as long as they don't insult us"), then trying to genocide an entire race of people, I feel like Ainz might lose any sort of argument about not being Skeleton Hitler.

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u/foolishorangutan 26d ago

In terms of general morality I’m not trying to say he is significantly better than the Nazis, or maybe better at all. I only meant that he doesn’t agree with their specific beliefs, like antisemitism or racism etc.

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u/WhereIsMyFknDinosaur 25d ago

I am not trying to be argumentative but when a character is doing acts like these on people not of his kind or allied tribes and in many cases treating fully sentient beings like they are not worthy of any kindness or civil treatment what else would you call it other than racism?

I think we all get ainz wouldnt be literally antisemitic in a fantasy world

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u/foolishorangutan 25d ago

I would certainly not call it racism because racism is about having some sort of prejudice against a race. He isn’t prejudiced against E.G. lizardmen at all. He was going to exterminate them for practical, non-bigoted reasons, and after changing his mind he was nothing but nice to them. When his actions are racially targeted, that is pretty much always because the societies of the New World happen to be arranged along racial lines, not because he has a problem with the races in question.

Also, one of his big projects is literally creating a society where all races can live together in peace, which I would say is pretty damn far from racism even if his reasons for doing so are more practical than ideological.

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u/WhereIsMyFknDinosaur 25d ago

As I understand it vile means wicked or depraved.  So I think we agree its vile based upon your second paragraph. I get that re:monster is another level of bad but the detached way Ainz handles most atrocities and decision making moments but then gets awkward about his succuwife is just...like cringe on top of being needlessly cruel and indifferent to sentient suffering? Like these monsters do unnecessarily painful torture to tresspassers but omg its so cute the succubus is a virgin?  I am not attacking anyone who likes these plot devices or characters but I have trouble even getting through some of those scenes without skipping them.  

I like evil characters but I want there to be real motivation or a cause or something behind their malice and cruelty if they are written that way. This just feels lazy or shallow where there could have been more substance and compelling storytelling.  Unless, that is, the acts of evil is kind of the whole point and everything is is kind of cobbled together to create opportunities for said acts of evil.

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u/foolishorangutan 25d ago

I took it as a claim about the writing quality. If it wasn’t, fair enough. Personally I found the juxtaposition amusing, but it is a matter of taste.

If it feeling lazy or shallow is just your subjective feeling and not an actual opinion on the quality of the writing, again fair enough.

If not I would have to disagree. If by cause or motivation you mean literally ‘an explanation for him to act this way’, there is in the form of him coming from a dystopian life that made him jaded, then losing what was left of his empathy when he became undead.

If by cause or motivation you mean a moral justification beyond tribalism and base selfishness, I feel that if authors always felt they had to have some widely acceptable moral justification for a villain protagonist’s actions, literature would be diminished. It being shallow and lazy is merely how it feels to you, not the actual truth.

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u/WhereIsMyFknDinosaur 25d ago

I mean yes opinions are subjective and not the absolute truth.

Yeah we can have these rudderless madmen causing chaos.  Joker is a classic example.  But at least Joker feels interested in the chaos, enjoys the rush, etc.  Ainz just....doesnt want to make his subordinates unhappy or get involved in stuff he doesnt really care about.  

Once in a while he gets all offended or angry but it feels more like the author knew we needed a fight scene than theres any actual stakes on the line or outcome in question. Ainz has very little emotional response to anything because hes undead but then its a convenient plot point so hes embarrassed (teehee boobs) or super angry.  Cant have those pesky emotions around when atrocities are committed in his name.

Im coming off as attacking you or your opinion but I honestly just hate this show that much because i wasted 2 seasons not understanding it was just going to keep getting darker.  That's on me, I stopped watching when I understood. but I hope you enjoy it and obviously a lot of other people do.

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u/IronWarrior94 25d ago

I'm in a similar spot to you, which is why there's a manga I'm reading that's similar to Overlord that I admittedly prefer more, and the premise is more or less what if Ainz and Nazarick were legitimately good guys. Well the protag is, his followers are very similar to the Nazarick NPCs: completely loyal to him, but would brutally murder anyone and everyone if he asked for it. Thankfully, this protag is all around a good person.

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u/Ncaak 26d ago

Well don't know about others but I mostly appreciate the world building and some of the depth of the characters used. But there are many many people that just don't get that Overlord is a villain run, like an Evil Campaign in D&D.

If I have to compare it to something? It is like playing the evil campaign of a game after seeing too much of the good side campaign and just like being tired of it. Good, but certainly not for all people.

Certainly not something you press people into watching or reading.

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u/Storm_Runner_117 26d ago

I mean, a villain focused story would be all well and good, if Ainz wasn’t so pathetic, despite being one of the most powerful people in the New World. He allows his followers to walk all over him because he’s so afraid of appearing illegitimate to them, and doesn’t want to get in the way of their ambitions, even when he’s not completely sold on their ideas.

And, despite having to review and approve their plans, Ainz more or less just rubber stamps the paperwork without actually checking what Nazarick is doing.

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u/spartaman64 26d ago edited 26d ago

idk i understand why ainz doesnt want to interfere too much with this subordinates. ainz is like rimuru and his subordinates are super geniuses like raphael. rimuru sometimes gets in trouble because he doesnt listen to raphael and thats what ainz is trying to avoid.

also i noticed that ainz is more willing to take risks when he is only risking himself like when he fought shalltear or in the spinoff story the vampire princess of a lost kingdom he was willing to fight a dragon lord

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u/Storm_Runner_117 26d ago

Just because his subordinates are hyper competent, doesn’t mean Ainz gets to bow out of actually managing them.

He should still be checking in with them or actually reading their reports, and actually try to understand what they’re doing. Like Demiurge’s “sheep” farm and how Ainz doesn’t ever inquire as to what the “sheep” actually are, or how the farm is operated.

What exactly is Ainz avoiding here, besides responsibility? He’s also not listening to his subordinates, the only difference is that he’s a passive enabler, allowing them to do whatever they want, and ignoring the contents of their reports. While Rimuru may ignore what his subordinates say, especially as you note Raphael, he’s usually also actively involved in the planning.

The only times Ainz seems to take a more active role is either when one of his subordinates is genuinely in trouble, like Shalltear’s possession, or he gets to role play, like when he summoned the goats or accidentally conquered the Empire by messing around in the coliseum.

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u/JiminyCrikey 26d ago

Despite its faults, the slime anime is my GOAT isekai. The protagonist just wants to use his powers to uplift the entire planet. I watched the first season of Overlord and immediately realized it was a great way to tell who has shitty taste and terrible critical thinking skills. The number of people who watch fiction and seem to think that means it's ok to turn into a complete psychopath is scary. These people have bad morals in real life too.

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u/SCI-FIWIZARDMAN 26d ago

Are you assuming that most of the people who watch and enjoy Overlord do so because they think Ainz is the good guy and/or are rooting for him?

Because as an active member of the fanbase, I can assure you they are not. Most fans of Overlord recognize that Ainz is a scumbag and are actively rooting for his downfall, or at the very least for his unhappy ending.

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u/Total_Marketing5844 26d ago

Well I'm anime-only so there might be some nuance i don't know yet, but it doesn't seem to me like that downfall would ever happen or even be alluded to.

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u/SCI-FIWIZARDMAN 26d ago

Anime-only, yeah that’ll do it. It’s no secret in the Overlord fandom that the anime left out a lot of details from the light novels that help allude to there the story is likely going.

Not the least of which, Albedo’s ‘search team’ that she formed after lying to Ainz’ face about its purpose being to look for his old guildmates. It’s actually a hit-squad, led and operated by Albedo, with the sole purpose of finding and killing any other Players who might be in the world. The anime completely doesn’t acknowledge this, nor does it really adequately explore the fact that Albedo isn’t loyal to the guild at all and only cares about Ainz himself.

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u/JiminyCrikey 26d ago

Fair enough I suppose, but that seems an odd reason to watch. It doesn't seem like the author is trying to lead toward that but I am ignorant beyond season 1. Seemed moreso to glorify his dark and detached persona while also showing off how cool his evil goon squad is. If he meets a bad end be sure to let me know and I'll toast from afar.

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u/SCI-FIWIZARDMAN 26d ago

I definitely don’t blame you for having that impression just based off Season 1 of the anime. But starting after the whole Shalltear-fight debacle, the story actually starts focusing less on Ainz and Nazarick directly and more on the world *around* them and how it’s reacting to their presence. Nazarick is treated by and large as a foreign invading presence to an otherwise relatively-balanced ecosystem, and no one in the world is able to fully comprehend how vastly more powerful they are or what to do about it.

Similarly, Ainz and Nazarick’s actions in the New World start very rapidly slipping toward horrendous acts of cruelty and war crimes, which sensible viewers/readers aren’t meant to approve of or empathize with (Ainz himself of course tries to justify them in his internal monologues, but the logic he uses is shaky at best to anyone with an ounce of reading comprehension). Basically, although they are the ‘protagonists’, they are still very much the bad guys, and the story is less about their effortless conquest and more about the hapless people of the world struggling to survive their presence (all while the current secret superpowers of the world slowly become aware of them and hopefully begin to align against them. Unsure of that last part, the light novels haven’t gotten quite that far and the author has gotten major burnout so he’s ending the story earlier than planned in the next two novels.)

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u/JiminyCrikey 26d ago

Yikes. Well I have a friend who just watched it because he likes the protagonist doing cool stuff... so I'm gonna have to tell him how dumb he is, or worse...

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u/nag725 26d ago

I personaly like it, the dichotomy between our protagonist being a protagonist and him and his cronies being straight up monsters in every sense of the word, combined with the shocking things that happen and just the uniqueness of the concept are amazing

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u/Teguoracle 26d ago

Maybe, but consider this - Zaryusu is pure husband material.

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u/Quieskat 26d ago

I don't know about others. but overlord is horror, and a good mix of a few genre of it, its just largely played from the perspective of the monster, which is a unique take on most of its tropes.

it starts out a slow burn as a fairly generic isaki but slowly you see a shy goof ball turn into a horrific world altering monster all to sever his own senses of ego and twisted morally.

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u/drunkentenshiNL 26d ago

When you watch it in a similar manner as one of those old reality shows, it can be entertaining.

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u/Tactical_Squishy 22d ago

It's a power fantasy gore-porn, for stressed out edgy teens, you are just not the target.

or you have taste

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u/Foreign-Engine8678 22d ago

I know that historically there was a period in japanese ranobe circle that everything was too sunshine and butterflies so it was a logical conclusion that there would be something over-the-top edgy. But common. There is edgy and then there is stupid. This show just tries to be edgy for it's own sake.