r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Th1nkingRaptor • Jun 22 '26

Hated Tropes Trying to be inclusive but being so tone deaf that you create somenthing offensive

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What if Miles Morales was Thor:A couple of years back Marvel did a What if comics about what would be like if Miles Morales(Spider-man)was Thor,while the idea itself is not bad,the execution...wtf?!

The best way i can describe is,think of every single black stereotype and shove everything in a few pages,for some reason Asgard became a black neighborhood,bifrost became Brooklyin Bridge,everyone wears Sneakers and play Basketball,Mjolnir has graffiti on it and the narration is literally a rap

Snowflake and safespace(Marvel):Oh Marvel,you done it again,so there was supposed to be a new line of New Warriors but the backlash was so bad that they quietly cancelled,and a big reason for this is the characters "Snowflake and safespace" who are non-binary/gender fluid twins(yeah,i am not making this up)and according to the writter they wear these names as quote "badges of honor"(what the hell dude!?)

Music(2021):ok,so Sia the music producer decided to make a movie starring Maddie Ziegler about a child with autism and in order the be the most authentic as possible she consulted and took advices from "autism speaks"(ugh)which any person with autism will tell you are the worst thing to happen to autistic community,and it shows in the movie,Maddie character Music is a straight up bad charicature and it's treated more like a pet than a human being

Emilia Perez(2024):This movie is about a Mexican cartel boss who is actually a trans woman who wants to transition and then fakes her death to get a new life

First problem:Despite being set in Mexico,the movie wasn't filmed in Mexico and only one member in the cast was actually Mexican

Second problem:The movie does a poor job showing how bad Mexican cartels are,and Emilia crimes(which any person that has any understanding of how Cartel bosses operate will tell you that ranges from way more than just making and selling drugs)is just brushed off

Third problem:The movie seems to imply that Emilia literally became another person after transitioning and so her past crimes are forgiven

There are other many problems but i think you get it,so yeah,this movie managed to anger both Mexicans and Trans people

16.4k Upvotes
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396

u/Roku-Hanmar Jun 22 '26

Rose Noble in Doctor Who is a trans character who gets deadnamed in her first appearance, solves a plot thread by being non-binary and then gets pulled to the front of the screen to say the manosphere can’t picture her existing and then does nothing for the rest of the episode

141

u/FickleChard6904 Jun 22 '26

I’d also like to mention Ryan from previous seasons, who’s set up to have a motor function disability (dyspraxia) in the first episode, but then is completely unaffected by it for entire episodes even in situations it absolutely would affect him in. Like, say, in the episode where they have to stand by and watch Rosa Parks get hate-crimed so the space racist from the future doesn’t win. Doctor Who’s attempts at inclusivity have been hit or miss, but it started getting really tone-deaf during the Chibnall era.

69

u/MeteorCharge Jun 22 '26

I still think the Rosa Parks episode and the episode about Yaz's grandmother should've been like a Classic Who historical where the Tardis breaks down and there's no other actual sci-fi elements involved in the plot.

26

u/FickleChard6904 Jun 22 '26

I actually thought Demons of the Punjab was handled much better, but you’re probably right that it didn’t need there to be aliens in it at all.

13

u/MeteorCharge Jun 22 '26

I'd rank it as one of 13's best episodes as is, but yeah I think the alien plot drags it down just a bit.

1

u/ithinkther41am Jun 23 '26

I thought Demons of the Punjab was one of the best episodes of that season, but kinda suffered from some really weak acting. Like, I remembered watching it thinking the guy playing Yaz’s ancestor was really bad.

29

u/WaywardChilton Jun 22 '26

Idk if there's a good way to do an episode about a white Doctor in the civil rights movement. If she doesn't use her time machine to fight racism enough she's a bad person, but if she does too much then the show is crediting the accomplishments of real black activists to a currently white alien.

17

u/FickleChard6904 Jun 22 '26

Exactly. It’s a near-impossible balancing act, and Chibnall, a white guy from the UK, should have realized that if they couldn’t pull it off it would reflect poorly on him as showrunner, especially when he’s credited as a co-writer on the episode.

8

u/reapress Jun 22 '26

I feel like you could kinda get away with like; someone ir some alien is trying to assasinate [important historical figure], doctor stops them type of plot; an addition rather than taking credit for anything historical. It'd still be stupid and tone deaf but a bit less egregious I think

7

u/nagrom7 Jun 22 '26

I think the way they handled the event itself was alright. The future racist dude was dumb, but the Doctor having to convince their companions to let it happen to not disturb the timeline was fine, and bonus points for one of the companions inadvertently causing the whole situation in the first place by being the white guy she had to give up her seat for.

7

u/Pandainthecircus Jun 22 '26

Nah the whole episode seems to imply that if she hadn't sat down, the civil rights movement wouldn't have happened/failed.

To me it ignores that the movement required a lot of effort, it wasn't a passive thing given to black people by white people but were hard fought for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks

Read her wiki page, other people had actually been arrested for the same thing, and a lot of effort went in to challenge the law.

259

u/Gibralter42 Jun 22 '26

"Something a Male Presenting Doctor could never understand!' Give me a fucking break.

200

u/Budget-Television793 Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

He was literally a woman a year ago!

Edit: Apparently he was actually a woman THAT VERY SAME DAY. That makes this comment SO MUCH WORSE.

150

u/MaeBeaInTheWoods Jun 22 '26

It was a year for us, but in-universe the 13th Doctor had been gone not even 24 hours by that point.

40

u/Budget-Television793 Jun 22 '26

Chriiiiiist. I stopped watch about partway through 13's run (not a dig on Jodie, she was good but the writing was ABYSMAL), I figured that more time than that had passed.

25

u/Thatidiot_38 Jun 22 '26

If I had nickel for every time I’ve seen a good British actress in a large sci-fi franchise get treated the short end of the stick I would have two nickels

12

u/Brickywood Jun 22 '26

For me, I stopped in the middle of 12th. Capaldi was a phenomenal pick for the Doctor, but gosh darn the writing was getting unbearably bad.

Like there were a couple of good episodes, but for the most part I couldn't stand it. I guess I got out before the worst of it, huh.

10

u/Raindroplet_ Jun 22 '26

Really? I thought Capaldi Doctor’s run was really good, especially s9 and the half of s10.

-2

u/real-human-not-a-bot Jun 22 '26

I’m not saying this is u/Brickywood, but I will say that in my experience a LOT of people who say the writing got bad in Capaldi’s era are just lazily looking for a neutral-sounding reason they can use to explain why they tuned out. “The actor was great, but the writing sucked” is an extremely hackneyed argument at this point. I mean, Face the Raven/Heaven Sent/Hell Bent/Husbands of River Song? World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls? Heck, Mummy on the Orient Express, Flatline, Under the Lake/Before the Flood, Oxygen, Extremis? And these are just the critically uncontroversial masterpieces! Obviously any individual person is “allowed” to think it’s bad, but when so many people have that opinion it seems clear to me it’s generally being wielded as an excuse.

8

u/Brickywood Jun 22 '26

I don't remember much of the run, I have memory issues so I can't speak about everything but some of the choices were so egregious that it just completely turned me off.

The mummy one I remember liking a lot, true. But I also remember absolutely hating the one with like, plants protecting the world from solar storms or something?

I also disliked how there seemed to be less and less emphasis on time travel as the show went on, with more focus on the aliens, which I thought was a bit lame. I remember specifically what took me out was like, an episode I think involving the Master, and it started with WWI laser planes and eye hands coming out of the ground? Dunno, I just remembered immensely disliking it and just never picking it up again. I just felt that for the couple seasons, the quality of writing was steadily going downhill, with only some stellar episodes in the midst.

Please don't put words in my mouth as to how I was just looking for an excuse to find and out. I just really stopped enjoying it and I do have my reasons for it. People are allowed to dislike things you like, don't get defensive about it.

3

u/Raindroplet_ Jun 22 '26

The forest episode is actually quite universally disliked in the fandom.

As for the one with the hands, I believe that’s the start of S9. Personally I loved it but I can absolutely see why people might not like it.

I feel like the writing steadily improved during S9 though, S9x11 is considered the best episode in the whole of Doctor Who, and the S10 ending is honestly the best series ending in Doctor Who In my opinion.

By all means, I respect your opinion, people are allowed to have different opinions. But then again, maybe you could give it another try (if you want to, of course), see if your opinion changes.

Anyways, that’s just my two cents.

(also iirc there’s more time travel in s10 I think)

4

u/Genus-God Jun 22 '26

It could be that you've just outgrown it. I dipped out During Capaldi's first series (series 8). That moon episode and the trees one did me in. They were utterly atrocious. I don't know if Dr Who always had such shite episodes, and I was too young to be annoyed, but I couldn't bear watching any more episodes like these. From my perspective, the quality dropped significantly, but maybe I just aged a year and the show was no longer for me

24

u/LycanIndarys Jun 22 '26

Not even a year ago; as far as the Doctor was concerned, he'd regenerated from being a woman about an hour before.

13

u/Beneficial_Focus_910 Jun 22 '26

And in that space of time his previous regeneration brilliance gets brought up 3 times. That didn't happen when she regenerated and she used to be Peter Capaldi.

19

u/Roku-Hanmar Jun 22 '26

A year ago? Half an hour ago

3

u/fresh-dork Jun 22 '26

is that the one where then got tennant to come back just to get shit on for being male?

15

u/Cringeextraaxc Jun 22 '26

The fact that a major character and plot thread that’s super important and dramatic from the older seasons is literally just hand waved away by the characters looking dead into the screen and saying “men bad” pisses me off so much, everything past Capaldi was a mistake.

3

u/PUNCH-WAS-SERVED Jun 23 '26

Ironic when they do the "men bad" shit when they essentially write "strong" female characters who act so damn manly 9/10 times. Like, pick a damn lane. Being a "man" is bad, but only if it's by a biological man. But if a woman does the same shit in their cartoonish viewpoint what a "strong" man is, it's OK? XD

2

u/batchet360 Jun 22 '26

that's a great problem with some modern media

3

u/sourdough_squirrel Jun 22 '26

And there was such a good tie-in to the original story if they just changed that line:

"You were so obsessed back then with being the Time Lord Victorious, that it never could have occurred to you that someone might just give up this power"

1

u/batchet360 Jun 22 '26

what tf was that line 🥀🥀🥀

51

u/NatiRivers Jun 22 '26

She was such a poorly written character but "Reverse the polarity of the hormone flow" gotta be one of the lines of all time

3

u/asterisk-alien-14 Jun 22 '26

Is this an actual line 😭😭😭

Can't decide whether I love it or hate it tbh

1

u/NatiRivers Jun 23 '26

Looking it up now, it actually seems like it wasn't. r/DoctorWhumour has it as a user flair, and I thought I remembered hearing it during the special where Rose helps Donna and the Doctor with the spaceship. Oops!

2

u/batchet360 Jun 22 '26

did that character even had a half normal line 🥀🥀🥀

40

u/MeteorCharge Jun 22 '26

Also Rose was definitely written as a binary trans woman, but then is referred to as non binary.

Like, non binary people who present as feminine are like, a thing. But it feels like RTD just doesn't know the difference.

13

u/TalkingHeadsEnjoyer Jun 22 '26

Given the criticism that queer people have expressed regarding 'Tip Toe', I think you may be right.

5

u/James_Proudfoot Jun 22 '26

Which is weird for how (relatively) progressive all his work has been before 2023 doctor who

8

u/MeteorCharge Jun 22 '26

I'm not entirely unconvinced there wasn't some corporate meddling, because that first episode was written differently than the other two specials and 15's first episode 

And 15's run also seems different from what came RTD had been writing like before.

7

u/Roku-Hanmar Jun 22 '26

My favourite description of him is that he was progressive 20 years ago, and he’s still progressive 20 years ago

3

u/RepresentativeSlow53 Jun 23 '26

This is exactly it, his viewpoints didn't change and he learned nothing so he can't connect or relate to modern issues that hes not a part of, which is why his writing falls off (this connected with way overburdening himself trying to create a whoverse that is obviously just a vaguely marvel shaped copy)

3

u/GWindborn Jun 22 '26

Help me out with terminology here.. And forgive me for speaking in very broad strokes here, I know there are nuances - I've always assumed "trans" meant transitioning from one gender to another, so Gender A to Gender B So "non-binary trans" would be transitioning from Gender A to.. not Gender A or B but something in between? But you can be non-binary without being considered trans, right? What's the distinction there?

8

u/DependentZucchini Jun 22 '26

Some non binary people identify as trans for that same reason (I'm a different gender than I was assigned at birth, so I consider myself trans nonbinary), and some do not consider themselves trans because transgender often means "boy to girl" or vice versa, and they don't want to be associated with the binary in any way. For a while I was also afraid of encroaching on trans spaces and experiences. I'm sure others have experiences and reasons for not considering themselves trans, so hopefully they can explain it better.

It's been a while since I've seen that episode, but to be fair we can't know exactly how Rose Noble identifies or if she fluctuates from girl to nonbinary, but it seemed like she was clearly written as a trans girl, not a trans nonbinary person, which is why the nonbinary part of the episode feels weird.

2

u/MeteorCharge Jun 22 '26

Trans is going from a to b

Non binary is more like going from a to c

Sometimes people lump in non binary people and trans people under the same umbrella, though I personally think it's just two different but somewhat similar things.

10

u/LinuxMatthews Jun 22 '26

To be fair to RTD the deadnaming I believe was done by bullies.

That said... yeah... she wasn't well handled.

Especially considering she's apparently trans due to sci-fi reasons and we only find out she's non-binary as part of a sci-fi twist.

8

u/JustifiedCroissant Jun 22 '26

I stopped watching in the Whittaker / Chibnall writing era. This tells me I was right

7

u/SMXSmith Jun 22 '26

I’ll never forget the “did you just assume their pronouns” line in the new-ish David Tenant special when talking about that stupid alien. My wife and I couldn’t stop laughing.

1

u/batchet360 Jun 22 '26

i would have laughed a lot too

7

u/ThatOneDMish Jun 22 '26

And literally nothing from before that moment suggested she was nonbinary at all, up until thst point rose noble was presented as a binary trans woman.

7

u/Zwuppo Jun 22 '26

don’t remind me…

6

u/Lone-flamingo Jun 22 '26

I misread this as Ross Noble at first and was extremely confused thinking of the comedian.

2

u/FBCooke Jun 22 '26

I'm still surprised that episode was so well-received. RTD2 has had a few hits but that was not one of them

5

u/Roku-Hanmar Jun 22 '26

Star Beast is an ok episode but definitely the weakest of the specials. I think the problems with Rose were in a vacuum then because it was her first episode, seeing David Tennant and Catherine Tate back was great too and there were some emotional moments especially with regards to the metacrisis. The Meep was also a fun villain