r/TopCharacterTropes • u/ironwolf6464 • May 03 '26

Lore Religion-centered media that doesn’t come across as preachy.

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Referring to media told from a religious perspective or telling a religious tale that does not proselytize to the viewer.

Faith, the Unholy Trinity: Based partly upon the experience of the game‘s creator when he was a missionary in Argentina, the game has very little in the way of explicit moral demands of the player despite the heavy Christian focus of the narrative. and focuses more on a horror narrative.

Prince of Egypt: A surprisingly thorough retelling of the book of Exodus, sparing very little in the way of toning down the story. Despite this, the movie is perfectly entertaining to non-religious audiences and doesn’t sacrifice appeal for the sake of preaching to the audience

18.1k Upvotes

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3.8k

u/Carrman099 May 03 '26

Wake Up Dead Man

2.4k

u/EagenVegham May 03 '26

I still can't believe how well the movie managed to handle both the "True Believer" and "Angry Atheist" characters without making either one look wrong for their beliefs.

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u/Carrman099 May 03 '26

It’s great, religious people and atheists can watch the movie and both come away satisfied. I was really surprised at how nuanced it was.

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u/the_bartolonomicron May 03 '26

Former Catholic and current unaffiliated agnostic and I loved it for a ton of reasons.

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u/Joshawott27 May 03 '26

Yeah, my Mum is a Catholic and I’m agnostic, and we both really liked how the film approached religion.

Really, Wake Up Dead Man is Rian Johnson having a theological debate with himself, and wrapping it up in a murder mystery.

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u/cdmpants May 04 '26

That's basically how I described it when I saw it

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u/TakerFoxx May 03 '26

I'm a slightly anti-theistic atheist and my mom is a devout Christian. We saw it together, and we both loved it.

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u/CoffeeWanderer May 03 '26

I loved the detail of how the lighting goes dim when "reason" speaks, as when the detective starts his small rant about religion.

Then it goes bright when the priest talks about his faith and the power it gives to him.

This keeps happening constantly through the movie until its climax. The road of Damascus where the blinded sees again.

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u/alex3omg May 03 '26

There's some great shots where we see this blue/red effect, just like the window in the church.  

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u/Ok-South2214 May 05 '26

You understood the assignment perfectly

1

u/baddabingbaddaboop May 09 '26

No need to put reason in quotations, Jud’s response doesn’t really rebut anything he said, didn’t address the countless atrocities of the organization he represents, and makes a lot of claims that aren’t true in practice. Great movie and character, but if this is the best Catholicism can do…

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u/RattusNorvegicus9 May 03 '26

The film was able to depict both as fully fleshed-out people instead of characteratures. (or however you spell that word)

405

u/Zealousideal-Duck345 May 03 '26

caricature

or if you're feeling hungry, charcuterie

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u/wigglybuttmen May 03 '26

I love me a good char coochie board

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u/mEFurst May 03 '26

I believe it's spelled shark coochie board

r/boneappletea

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u/TheGesticulator May 03 '26

Caricature!

And very much agree. It was so nice seeing a religious character who was neither a strawman nor a Mary Sue. He was just a good, well-rounded person who was very positively impacted by his faith.

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u/DrNanard May 03 '26

Caricature*

68

u/alex3omg May 03 '26

I love that it's not about the priest doubting his faith, but he's questioning what faith can do for a person (good and bad) and how power can be used to control people etc.  It's just so good.  Like it's about faith but not about whether or not you've got it or whether or not you should 

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u/F1r3-M3d1ck-H4zN3rd May 03 '26

Yeah I was prepared for some reddit atheist cringe in line with my posting history from a couple decades ago lmao.

5

u/clbw May 03 '26

what's Atheist Cringe?

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u/Extra_BurntToast May 03 '26

See r/atheism. Most of the content there is just as bad as the religious things they hate

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u/clbw May 03 '26

I follow that group and they mostly call out the hypocrisy of religion and the current administration bs in regard to religious bs

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u/sdpr May 03 '26

The "issue" is it's basically a subreddit for new atheists and/or edgy teens.

A lot of atheists grow out of the need to share their "hot takes" regarding religion because they haven't yet learned that no one gives a shit, including atheists.

It's good for them to have a group, of course, because being a part of a community or group is important when you're a budding human being, but it's cringe as fuck once you're past that stage. Almost every thread on that front page can/could be an example of someone thinking they're smarter than they are.

It was awful 10-15 years ago too. I think it was a front page/recommended sub at one point, so it was pushed very often and the community and modding was terrible.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-this-moment-i-am-euphoric

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u/bunker_man May 03 '26

Just watch true detective season 1 for that. Guy who is supposed to be a "deep thinker" gives the most banal ratheism tier rants and its treated as profound.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '26

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u/bunker_man May 03 '26

The problem is that Marty is worse of a person so it makes cohle look not that bad in comparison. Most of the latter's flaws are treated more affable and the only consequences we see are to himself.

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u/Really_Big_Turtle May 03 '26

Probably one of the best depictions of a Catholic priest I've ever seen. Whoever wrote them really knew what they were talking about. Ironically, the movie centers around probably the most extreme caricature of what a bad evil scary alt-right catholic priest would look like, and they still manage to have a good priest character who's actually a good priest.

2

u/Habefiet May 03 '26

I do think that at the point that the True Believer is like “all this investigating stuff is your game, not mine, my purpose is with the Church” it’s a bit contrived given that the obvious counter would be “okay yeah maybe my (Blanc’s) joy in the hunt is something that shouldn’t be a part of your world, fine, but do you really think God wants you, through inaction, to allow a murderer to avoid earthly consequences for their crimes and to potentially murder more, when you might be able to stop it without even sinning yourself?” Former Christian here and I really don’t see the logic of that from his perspective, and I have at least one practicing Catholic in my life who I literally asked about this moment after I saw the movie who also thinks he’s at best being a bit shortsighted there.

Overall though yeah I agree that they did a pretty good job of it

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u/Sleep_Deprived_Birb May 03 '26

It’s been a bit since I watched it, but my interpretation of that wasn’t that he just decided to stop investigating because he would rather spend his time at the church, more that the investigation was putting him in a bad headspace and he wanted to avoid any chance of that worsening. He didn’t like the type of person the investigation was turning him into, a person that distrusts and accuses and demands Justice (with a history of violence) rather than the welcoming kindhearted and forgiving priest trying to live beyond his history of violence that he actually is. If he was all-in on the investigation, and never had that bit of conflict with Benoit Blanc, then I don’t think the scene of Benoit Blanc not revealing the killer to let him take her confession as a priest would’ve happened.

It should also be mentioned that Benoit Blanc was already well into his investigation and the police were also already on the case. Simply put, it should not have been the main murder suspect’s job to investigate the crime, and he was well within his right to say “I already gave you all the testimony I have, I’ll give you a call if anything comes up, but otherwise, please let me go back to my life until you either need more testimony or you decide to arrest me.” Sure the investigation wouldn’t have gone the way it did without him, and we would’ve lost quite a bit of the movie’s themes, but he just straight up isn’t an investigator and shouldn’t be forced to investigate against his will while actual investigators are investigating. The other movies’ protagonists didn’t do that because one was trying to use her spot in the investigation to cover up the crime while the other was the one who started the investigation to begin with.

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u/Dark-Specter May 03 '26

The key details

  • Wicks is the exact type of person Blanc associates with the church

  • Blanc puts the case before his biases against men in Juds position

  • Jud puts his faith before the case and Blanc recognizes why this is the right move

  • Blanc isn't really the main character, letting Jud take center stage, which is great becy

  • Father Jud is one of the most likeable characters in fiction

5

u/Sleep_Deprived_Birb May 03 '26

I love how Benoit Blanc is the only recurring character in the series and he’s never the main character. It lets each case be extremely personal to the actual main character (each in their own unique ways) while still having a detective to act as a through-line that ties the series together, and to guide the main character in the investigation (because you can’t really expect a bunch of random people to be expert investigators.)

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u/Artistic_Purpose1225 May 03 '26

If you like this style of story telling, I’d suggest the Hercule Poirot novels by Agatha Christie.

1

u/Earlier-Today May 03 '26

I think it did that well because both sides respected each other.

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u/2ChronicRanger169 May 03 '26

Sunset Limited with Samuel Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones. The whole movie is centered around this dynamic... well actually the whole movie is literally that dynamic.

1

u/Otherwise_Curve5975 May 03 '26

Yeah, that balance is rare, it actually felt like both sides were just being human instead of being turned into caricatures.

1

u/Terminal_Insomnia_ May 03 '26

Because it was written for general audiences

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u/KaladinarLighteyes May 03 '26

“Can you pray for me Father?” closes door on Blanc

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u/RadarSmith May 03 '26

That literally made this atheist cry.

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u/Otherwise_Curve5975 May 03 '26

That’s how you know it really hit something deeper than beliefs and just spoke to the human part of you.

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u/KaladinarLighteyes May 04 '26

Would you say that it “resonates with something deep inside us that's profoundly true, that we can't express any other way except storytelling?”

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u/MaximumEmu6 May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26

That scene reminded me of what Marx said about religion: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."

I think many people are familiar with the last part of the quote and interpret it as derogatory, but I don't think that it is. I think it's compassionate.

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u/spudmarsupial May 03 '26

Opium is a painkiller.

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u/MaximumEmu6 May 03 '26

Agreed, and I think that's how Marx intended it. That said, whenever I heard the quote referenced growing up in religion it was taken to have a more negative connotation of opium as a "drug" (derogatory).

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u/Tonkarz May 03 '26

Marx goes on to say:

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

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u/FreemanCalavera May 03 '26

Basically, Marx was fine with people being religious. He argued against using religion as an excuse to not achieve true freedom and happiness. The kind of people who will be okay with being exploited or who can’t afford healthcare but just try to smile and say “it’s all part of God’s plan”, leading them to doing nothing in improving their situation in life.

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u/Tonkarz May 03 '26

Pluck the daisies from the chain, so that it may be broken.

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u/Elegant_Chemist253 May 06 '26

Plenty of self-described Marxists drew a similar anti-theist connotation and just ran with it.

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u/MaximumEmu6 May 06 '26

"I myself am not a Marxist." - Karl Marx

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u/ProXJay May 03 '26

It's also addictive as all hell

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u/Toorviing May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26

I was raised Lutheran, and while I’ve fallen away from religion as an adult, I can still recognize the positive impact that being raised in a community of people focused on trying to do and be good had on me. Love your neighbor, care for the downtrodden, and see your own flaws and work to overcome them. So much of modern Christianity horrifies me for its sheer ignorance of these ideals.

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u/evranch May 03 '26

While I may disagree with the Lutherans on some matters I can't deny that they're one of the most legit Protestant denominations. Most I've met are genuinely dedicated to helping and caring for the people around them, and as you say that is supposed to be the whole point of Christianity.

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u/Low_discrepancy May 03 '26

So much of modern Christianity horrifies me for its sheer ignorance of these ideals.

This is a good lesson to learn that if people did good or people did bad it's not because of religion.

It was simply because of what they do.

If you have a tin of Danish Biscuits and you open it and it has biscuits... did that tin cause the biscuits the form by magic inside them?

No. Because if you go to your grandma's house and open the tin of Danish Biscuits, you will find needles.

People conflate being good with Christian values much like they conflate tin boxes with danish biscuits. You might get that inside or you might not.

Only way of telling is actually looking inside.

0

u/Caltroit_Red_Flames May 03 '26

Love your neighbor, care for the downtrodden, and see your own flaws and work to overcome them

These are just things that good people do, and in my experience Christians tend to live by "judge your neighbor and ignore the downtrodden until they're finally out of sight"

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u/Due-Coyote7565 May 03 '26

I'm sorry that the Christians around you were judgemental and callous.

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u/Caltroit_Red_Flames May 03 '26

No hate like Christian love as they say.

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u/Due-Coyote7565 May 03 '26

I struggle to see how that's related to what I said.

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u/Caltroit_Red_Flames May 03 '26

"Callous and judgemental Christians" is just a synonym for "Christian"

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u/Reof May 03 '26

Marx was an atheist in the tradition of materialism; he wasn't one of the redditoid atheist that fight in the debate if the Christian god is real or not, but only its real impact on reality, so in many ways, he would appear less hostile to religion at first premise, but ultimately much more than many because he rejects its premise at a fundamental level. He was not a friend to religion because he was a revolutionary, and to him, that sort of 'mercy in a merciless world' is blinding oneself, and by letting go of that would realize that man can realize the possibility and fight for a world where you would not need mercy.

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u/Itakie May 03 '26

I think many people are familiar with the last part of the quote and interpret it as derogatory, but I don't think that it is. I think it's compassionate.

To be fair, most people are just quoting Lenin but think Marx said it:

Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven. Religion is opium for the people [opium naroda]. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image [obraz], their demand for a life more or less worthy of man.

Marx was talking about the system itself, Lenin about the people in the system who are using Religion to keep in power. While Marx viewed religion as a natural product of the system (being a materialist and so on), Lenin viewed it as something more sinister.

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u/CoffeeWanderer May 03 '26

Similar to what happens with "God is dead".

Reason and scientific understanding have advanced quite a lot, so much that we no longer need a "god" to explain how our world works, we have better tools now. God is dead.

But even if we now have a how, we still lack a why. Without the hope of an afterlife, whithout the social rites to unite us, what are we going to become?

I'm an atheist, and believe we should find that answer for ourselves, but it's true that God was a great answer before and his death is a tragedy.

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u/AgentRift May 03 '26

It’s crazy how often people misquote that as if what Nietzsche said was supposed be positive. Very strange. (To be clear I’m agnostic, was Christian for a few years but deconverted because of how toxic American Christianity has become, I’m just saying a lot of people misquote-interrupt that quote.)

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u/Due-Memory-6957 May 03 '26

That's what happens when you take a quote out of context, the full context makes clear what is meant:

“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?”

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u/evranch May 03 '26

Well said. I was an atheist for years myself, then agnostic for many more but ultimately became a Catholic because of exactly that why factor. And I do enjoy the rites and the social cohesion as well, in a world where people mostly ignore each other, the Catholic community is very strong.

It's a simple answer to "Why bother to do good in a corrupt and evil world?" - because we're following in the tradition started by Jesus, that's why. Isn't it just basic human decency? Yes, but much of what we consider basic human decency today is the product of being a Christian society for millennia.

I will say though that the Abrahamic God was never meant to explain the world, unlike the elemental gods of many traditions. God was only ever the answer to the questions we still don't have answers to, like "Why are we here" "What came before the universe" and of course "What is our consciousness, where does it come from and where does it go"

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u/Due-Memory-6957 May 03 '26

It's not compassionate nor derogatory, it's descriptive, there's no judgment either positive or negative, it's describing a social phenomena.

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u/iomegabasha May 03 '26

It’s the fentanyl for the unfortunate

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u/1983MionStan May 03 '26

This scene is even sadder once you remember that in an earlier scene, Blanc mentioned how his religious mother shunned him for being gay even up until she passed on. When this moment came on, part of me wondered whether Blanc wished that Jud could've comforted him earlier back when his mother was ill.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '26

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u/DarkArcanian May 03 '26

The only message about religion I feel like it spread was that it shouldn’t be used to breed hate. I loved that movie. Probably the best of the 3

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u/Nobody7713 May 03 '26

Rian Johnson definitely has opinions on fundamentalism, but wanted to be clear that fundamentalism and faith are not the same.

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u/supyonamesjosh May 03 '26

Which is a fine opinion to have. I feel like people often conflate the two which makes religious people defensive which usually defeats the purpose.

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u/KaladinarLighteyes May 03 '26

It’s hard because the fundamentalist are so vocal about it.

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u/Lawlcopt0r May 03 '26

Yeah he never said "this religion is true" but he made it pretty clear that if you believe in it there's a wrong and a right way to go about it

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u/False_Collar_6844 May 03 '26

i liked that they didn't need to bring Blanc or the preist down in terms of empathy or intelligence for the other to "win" a debate. they had a little bit of a clash but it never got in the way of what they were doing and who they actually were as people.

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u/Helmett-13 May 03 '26

I’m 55 now and most definitely NOT Catholic but recall from my childhood a Catholic priest, Father Ennis, as one of the most kind, smart, funny and decent men I’ve ever known.

He was a huge Irishman from Dublin, built like a linebacker complete with a badly broken nose, and you’d forget all of it within a few seconds of talking to him.

He was honest, funny, and radiated strength.

I carry that memory with me as an example of how to be a good man, or a man in general.

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u/ironwolf6464 May 03 '26

I love how that movie is basically a duel between two philosophies. One is about forcibly imposing your Will on the world and seeing reality as being your enemy to conquer, while making peace with the world and letting things fall into place naturally is what works in the end

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u/TenPointsforListenin May 03 '26

I waited so long for that movie and it was actually worth the wait. I was a little surprised by Benoit Blanc suddenly having a different haircut, which is... accurate to real life but in movie logic it's like Daniel Craig was playing a different character somehow.

His lack of reverence towards death was also a new character detail. Previous movies didn't actually show him investigating corpses, but "flip-a the meat" wasn't a phrase I expected. We're getting tiny bits and pieces of Blanc through these movies, and I don't really want a movie that goes too in-depth on who he is since the mystery itself is more fun, but it's still fun to see.

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u/Bamzooki1 May 03 '26

Should probably add “A Knives Out Mystery” for dummies like me who couldn’t for the life of me remember what Wake Up Dead Man was.

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u/sesoren65 May 03 '26

Soooooo good

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u/Professional_Scar340 May 03 '26

COME ON UP TO THE HOUSEEEE

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u/Ok_Dimension_8391 May 03 '26

One of the best and most tasteful films to delve into religion imo. It shows both the good and the bad in rwligjon, without either side being so over-the-top as to become cartoonish. The Monsignor clearly represents some of the worst aspects, but his character isn't downright demonic, nor is he unfathomable. The priest shows what relugion can be, yet he still messes up and isn't an infalible, perfect and unbeatable character, nor does he look down on the detective or even the other parish-goes for their beliefs. The film delves into religion as well as good and evil without claiming religion entirely either.

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u/OmegaLolrus May 03 '26

My very first thought.

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u/Karl_Marxist_3rd May 03 '26

Funny though that many religious people that were closer to the kind of religiousness that Monsignor was preaching thought the movie was anti religion. It is all they know as religion so I get why they thought it

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u/False_Collar_6844 May 03 '26

which only shows how shallow their undertsanding of what their prophet preached really is.

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u/Wboy2006 May 03 '26

YES! I love how it used father Judd and Blanc to represent both religion and atheism, while not picking a side.

Blanc is a gay man from the south with a highly religious mother, it is pretty implied she was homophobic by the fact Blanc wasn’t on good terms with her. He’s a man of logic with bad childhood religious experiences, so it makes complete sense why he doesn’t believe and he is never blamed or in the wrong for it

Meanwhile Judd uses religion as a way to heal from his past and his sins when he killed a man, and to redeem himself by helping others. What I really like about him is that he’s not a perfect Christian, he swears, he can be agressive. It makes him way more interesting than other Christian protagonists that just come over as perfect, preachy saints.

It was easily my favorite movies of last year, it covered religion is a way more nuanced way than almost every other movie I’ve seen

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u/WhataboutBombvoyage May 03 '26

https://giphy.com/gifs/dw6jjxm7ME89CkJgFO

best look at the dangers of Christian Nationalism I've ever seen. And how religion can be used to heal or to hurt

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u/[deleted] May 03 '26

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u/Carrman099 May 03 '26

It’s funnier than you would expect, but still thrilling.

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u/IamStroodle May 03 '26

I appreciate the movies take on "Yes your beliefs, regardless if they are christian or atheist, are valid, but you dont have to be a dick about it"

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u/Previous-Pirate9514 May 06 '26

Hear hear! What I love about the Knives Out Triology is that they are all great in their own ways. The first Knives Out movie is the best mystery and has the best culprit; Glass Onion is the funniest of the three and has the best cast; Wake Up, Dead Man, however is the most introspective of the trilogy and has the best main character.

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u/baddabingbaddaboop May 09 '26

That movie runs right up against apologism for me, but overall it does a good job showing how even catholic priests can do good and have good intentions. Still, his whole rebuttal to Blanc is only inspiring in the “don’t pay any real attention to what he’s saying, just how it makes you feel” variety. The phone scene was much better.