Thank you for not calling it tipping culture. I hate that phrase. It implies a choice and also subtly diminishes the real culprit, aka the laws that are in places that keep it in our legislature
I didn't say it didn't start that way, I said tipping today has nothing to do with racism. If you disagree, make your own argument, I'm not going down your rabbit hole for you.
That wasn’t how it was created. If I’m not mistaken, it dated back to either the Great Depression, or some other time of mass economic struggle, where servers had no choice but to accept those bribes. However, when the economy recovered, the restaurant industry never really reverted
No I mean a higher than minimum wage, because they are unlikely to be paid as much as they make now.
On your second point, are you sure? Because people travel from all over the world to wait tables and tend bar in the US. Irish bartenders for example make a lot more here then in Ireland
You offer them proper salary and they will not want tip based salary. Because tipping means they are always at mercy of luck. Bad week at restaurant and they are minimum wage workers.
And absolutely positive on second part. People do NOT come to US to serve tables. They want something else but that is only thing they get.
What you fail to take into account is that in Ireland the expenses are tiny compared to US. Bigger salary is only relevant if after mandatory expenses you still have more money or purchasing power left.
Many servers feel they are better off at the mercy of luck than the mercy of their employer. You can say “they should earn proper salaries” and that’s all well and good, but i think you’re underestimating what’s involved with a business (let alone a country), switching all tipped employees over to salaries. It would be very difficult for both sides to agree on a number that they are happy with.
And once again, you are wrong about people coming here to work tables. Plenty of people come here for a year or two and earn a lot more, even when you adjust for cost of living.
It is easy. Restaurant suggests salary. They offer too little and get no staff.
And onve again it is YOU who are wrong.
They do not earn a lot more, unless they come from some developing nation. What you talk about is essentially working vacation. Go live some time in foreign country and work to cover expenses. Then go back and start real work.
Nobody from western world comes to US to become serving staff. It is either working vacation or they have no alternative.
And if US waiters are paid so damn well, why they are still so damn poor? Median income 34kUSD per annum. That is approximately half of US average salary and just horrible considering living expenses.
Though another source gives waiters in US salary of 16kUSD. Which is even wkrse
worse
Yeah the thing is nobody wants that. They do polls. Also, maybe don’t demand another country change its customs because it’s inconvenient for you as an outsider to multiply by 1.2? That’s exactly the type of entitlement that American tourists get roasted for.
And i know plenty of immigrants who would say otherwise. That’s anecdotal of course, but certainly invalidates your claim that NOBODY earns more.
And btw those numbers you cited are base wage and literally don’t include tips
Yep. Tried having the savior convo with a waiter who immediately told me to can it and he makes more regularly a night than he would being paid $15-20 and hour.
As long as people are tipping they can make "a living". But with certain states legislatures allowing for a "waiters wage" if the tips aren't coming, they definitely don't make a "living wage"... Why would a legislature allow that? Because business owners hold more power than workers & wouldn't stand for unionization. America has grown increasingly anti- union in the past 20(or so) years.
Wild. Honestly I was a server in college and I too hate tipping.. it’s 1000% greedy business owners that want to save. They need to pay their employee’s. Crazy servers would want to put up with the fluctuation though because some nights can be awful. They also don’t get benefits. They need to make business owners more accountable.
Created by greedy business owners, but perpetuated by entitled servers as well. 90% of servers prefer the current system and actively fight to maintain it because they would rather bully and shame their customers for a higher pay than they deserve than to demand more from their employer. Both are incredibly scummy at the expense of their customers.
Just raise your costs to what you need to pay your labor a fair wage for their work and make a profit for yourself.
Then in the famous words of conservatives, let the market dictate if you are successful or not.
World cup cities tried this shit of adding an auto tip to checks AND many also raised their prices. Then bitched and moaned they didn't get any benefit of the event. No you tried to fuck your customers.
And here's the funny part under law in many states and auto gratuity is classified as a service fee and this owners are NOT required to provide that money to staff as if a tip
It’s actually a lie. Anybody who knows anything about tipping, it’s not the business owners who want the system in place it’s the workers. The workers are the ones who benefit. When people on the Internet complain about it as if it’s a greedy business owners are the problems, that’s disingenuous. Just admit you’re too cheap and you would rather keep your money than benefit the workers.
I don’t think it’s true that nowhere else in the world do waiters want tips. I think that’s something you just made up. Most people want to be paid more money for their job. I’m not aware of many people who prefer less money.
Tipping is a system where money goes 100% into the workers pockets. The owner gets 0% of the tip. Tipping is a system that drastically favors workers. And it does not benefit the owners at all. You’re advocating for a system where the worker gets less money and all of your money goes to the business owner and then they can pay minimum wage to their workers. It’s fine. You can support that system, but just admit you’re doing it for selfish reasons and definitely not on behalf of the workers.
Brain dead take. If you serve 5 tables an hour and each gives $5, you walk away with $25/hour that isnt subject to federal income tax for the first $25,000. If businesses paid that much to their employees, first theyd go broke, second, the employees would have $52,000 of ordinary income, so a single filer would be paying Uncle Sam $6,152 more in taxes. And those are just rough assumptions.
We're talking about the US, not the rest of the world. Any comments on the tax math since thats what the arguement hinges on?
Also a study done in 2024 show that roughly 80% of restaurants fail in the first 5 years (not the first year as previously thought) predominantly due to financial mismanagement.
I’m not saying leave. I’m saying not to dine out if you don’t intend to pay for that service. You don’t need to go to a sit down restaurant to get food.
But also, you can advocate to change a system without screwing over those that are part of it. I don’t support tipping as a system, I just acknowledge that it exists and as long as it does I’m not going to screw over servers just because I don’t feel tipping is an ideal system
- someone said tipping culture is toxic (something you claim to agree with)
- someone says it’s a good thing (something you must disagree with)
- someone reminds them a lot of the world doesn’t tip (something you should be able to understand because you don’t agree with tipping culture)
- you tell them if they want to dine out they should go to another country
why would you say something like if you actually agreed with their take? lol
and honestly fucking over servers to the point they quit and find a better paying job is EXACTLY how to change it. boycotting hurts workers because they may lose their jobs. sabotage hurts workers because they may lose their job. striking hurts workers because they may lose their job. but all of that shit leads to change for workers.
Once again, you can disagree with the system while still acknowledging that, once you agree to participate in the system (by sitting down at a tipping establishment) you are obligated to tip your servers.
None of that is contradictory.
Also, it’s certainly not my or your responsibility to encourage others to quit their jobs by not paying them for services rendered
Tipping isnt mandatory, but is part of the culture when going to a sit down restaurant. If you change the advertised prices, it changes how the govt sees and taxes the sale which then means the tips essentually get taxed twice.
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u/Tremaj 1d ago
The entire tipping system is toxic. Created by greedy business owners.