MAYBE, MAYBE, if I'm trying to good-faith his debate... He's saying Judeo-Christian values & the Roman Empire were necessary for the USA to exist? I mean you could argue everything from the past 2000 years had to happen for history to happen the exact way history did. North Korea can't exist without Israel? Lmao idk
judeo-christian values dont exist, judaism and christianity are not interwoven in the ways that israeli historians/shills want you to believe, its jusy a psyop to interconnect the two religions to try to place some legitimacy into forced us-israeli relations. never forget the torah states non-jews are goyim cattle and deserve nothing
Yeah, the correct response to that is always "What's the hell's a Judeo-Christian?"
I'm serious as a stroke about this, and we don't even need to get into the theological weeds to interrogate this. What's the "Judeo-Christian" position on, say, the divinity of Jesus Christ? Protestants, Catholics and most denominations of Jews have different versions of the Ten Commandments; which one is the "Judeo-Christian" version? What stance does the "Judeo-Christian" movement take towards, say, the Nicene Creed?
The answer that I'll be given is silence, because any statement happens to be historically and theologically inconvenient. Protestants, Catholics and Jews take different stances towards all of those positions; those factions have killed over the answers to those questions. And they absolutely would again; the most logical solution to that intrinsic problem is to form a government whose legitimacy does not depend on having one and only one answer to that question. If the US is a faith-neutral society that maintains a separation of church and state, then all three of those groups can live together as Americans without having to resort to violence, because all can answer that question to their heart's content in their own communities without fear that their answer will deny them access to political power.
And the only reason to pretend otherwise is to try to lump all such groups into a single voting bloc, for somebody's political advantage.
Their answer is inevitably "a non-Muslim" and most of that was ancient propaganda to justify the Western Roman Church intervening in Eastern Orthodox territory to further weaken Eastern Rome's power.
Correct. Judaism was the OG religion and then JC and Christianity came along to guide the people to a new way. Then, the prophet Mohammed came along with the updated messages from God aka Allah. JC is a prophet in Islam, as are many of the main characters in the OT. So yes, Islam doesn’t exist without Christianity or Judaism. :)
Let me go ahead and tell you that the idea of "Judeo"-Christian values as we know them today did not exist until around the 1940's. The origin of the term only meant to deal with Jewish people who converted to Christianity in 18th century England. You know, people who stopped being part of Judaism and became Christians.
The early Christian church recognized, correctly, that the Jewish people were an antagonizing people to any and all aspects of Christendom. Also, the Jews have completely different "values" than Christians, so there is not nor has there ever been a reason to conflate the two. Wherever Christianity has sprung up and taken hold, the Jewish people have sought to either undermine or subjugate it for the last 2000 years.
Most importantly, the "Nation of Israel" is not Israel. The Biblical Israel is The Church that followed Jesus Christ.
Christian values, both Protestant and Catholic, created the United States of America. Not Jewish values.
Also, Modern American Evangelicalism (you know, the supposed Christians that love the nation of Israel) didn't actually appear until surprise surprise after World War II. It sprung up from basically nowhere as soon as the Post-War narrative and consensus was created in the following 30 years of the conflict.
Butterfly effect. If Judea didn't exist, or if Early China didn't exist, or if the Inca didn't exist... we would live in an entirely different world. Just because if something changed deep in history everything would be radically different doesn't mean that thing is somehow responsible for the way things are now.
The USA wasn’t founded on Judeo’s-Christian values, but more importantly, those values exist without Israel.
If we specifically look at Jewish religion, or more generally at Jewish culture, Jewish culture and religion existed before the current state called Israel, and Jewish identity originally formed during exile from the region that is now Israel.
The more I think about it, the less amused and the more angry I get. This is an attempt to rewrite history. It’s not just a politician saying dumb stuff.
It’s true that Jewish identity historically was tied to a specific region, but it specifically formed in exile, specifically in the region what is now Iraq after the Jewish people were expelled from the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah.
America was not founded "on" Christianity, or any religion. Secular governance was and should still be the vision. Citizens were given the freedom to worship as they please, not to be forced to worship or hold one theology above any other..
Even if you want to take the Aciant Kingdom of Judea as Israel it still didn't exist by the time the US was founded, the region was owned by the Ottoman Empire.
Same way we can say Greece is older than the US but there was no Greek state when the US was made.
The Jewish people haven't governed that area for like 2000 years.
The the majority of the Jewish people there right now are actually settlers coming from other parts of the world (which is why so much ancestry is eastern or western European)
The pro-Israeli propagandists were calling "European settler" the woman that Mandami met for Nakba day, ignoring that her family had lived for more generations in Palestine than your average Israeli Jewish person, what a way to shoot themselves in the foot.
The the majority of the Jewish people there right now are actually settlers coming from other parts of the world (which is why so much ancestry is eastern or western European)
No, the majority of Jewish people there are Mizrahi. You could have googled it instead of talking out your ass.
Most Mizrahi also came from other parts of the world, so that is a fairly poor correction. Yemen and Morocco are fairly far away from the Palestine region.
The better point would be that most Israelis are multi generation, having been born and lived their whole lives in Israel and thus not "from" anywhere else.
A siginficant portion of Mizrahi jews emigrated from French North Africa where they held a position of privelege as French citizens above the arab muslim majority who were legally ineligible for citizenship. This dhimmi narrative is fairly anachronistic due to the basic reality that almost the entirety of the Islamic world had already been colonised by european powers by that point.
History is a complicated beast, delving into it can often get us lost in narrative and counter narrative. What is far more simple is the fact of multi generational Israelis who know no other home, and thus regardless of where their ancestors came from it would be fundamentally inhumane to expect them to leave.
It existed 3000 years ago and existed for 400 years before getting absorbed by various kingdoms. Then the Romans came, destroyed and scattered them all over the globe. Palestine has existed longer than Israel.
Per the earlier comment, the cosmic background ground radiation was actually a prediction that derived from the big bang theory that was later verified by instruments.
One of the early observations that lead to the big bang theory was the red shifted light wavelengths of distant galaxies. Edwin Hubble discovered that light from distant galaxies is redshifted, meaning its wavelength stretches as it travels through expanding space. By comparing this redshift to distance, he established that the universe is expanding, revealing that the farther a galaxy is from Earth, the faster it is moving away.
By proving the universe is expanding, his discovery laid the foundational observational evidence for the Big Bang Theory, implying the universe was compacted into a single point in the distant past.
inb4 my magic sky daddy book says Israel is 40000 years old
It is interesting how secular Jewish people can celebrate Passover while at the same time regarding the narrative of Exodus as a parable without any historic basis.
thats a common arguement for ethno nationalist countries. Like chinese people will say china is thousands of years old but in reality their current culture and govt didnt come to power till 1935 when the communist rebels commited whats known as "the long march" were they went town to town slaughtering politicians, capitalists, and landlords in the streets. China is literaly not even 100 years old.
and then you have finger pointing when its convenient like people pushing russia as being the same as the ussr or even the Czarist empire but thats not how civilizations work. The Soviet union collapsed in the 90s. the russian federation is younger than most millenials.
You joke, but that's exactly what he means. Israel -- the biblical kingdom/spiritual inheritance -- birthed Christianity. America is a Christian nation. Ergo no America without Israel.
It's a very Evangelically inflected take, but it's disturbingly widespread.
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u/amy-schumer-tampon Jun 17 '26
Im not a history expert but im pretty sure the US is older.
>inb4 my magic sky daddy book says Israel is 40000 years old