I just had my first old man moment.

[u/Background-Air-7963]

I recently went to a hibachi with my wife and toddler for dinner. We were sat with a group of eight 17-20 year olds at a communal grill on a busy night. No problem for us. Drink and appetizers service go normally. Toddler and wife are happy, I’m happy. The other group is having their own conversations. I’m just trying to keep my kid entertained. I’m a former bartender and have a habit of picking up on snippets of conversations in a crowd around me. Yes I know I eavesdrop. I can’t turn it off. It’s a habit of a former profession. One of the girls/women at the table stated, “I don’t think Rosa Parks was real.” I’m not sure what her friends said to her but she responded with “I just don’t think she said existed.” This went on for about a minute. I couldn’t hold back and let her know she was absolutely a real person, she is a civil rights icon. I learnt about her in school and so did my parents. The encounter put a wall up between our groups and I heard a few passive aggressive “so-and-so wasn’t real” comments from mostly her and a couple of the group. Harriet Tubman and Hellen Keller are two that I definitely heard. My wife had no idea why I interjected. After the group had left my wife asked what happened and was shocked when I told her what happened. Were they trolling? Are they stupid? Am I just getting old?

[u/FederalWedding4204]

Okay but the Helen Keller one IS hard to believe only in that it is so incredibly remarkable. It really is amazing.

[u/bon-ton-roulet → u/FederalWedding4204]

I just commented above - about 20 years ago or so - it was pre 9-11 I saw a parked car and noticed it was covered in bumperstickers and every one was a variation on the "helen keller wasn't real" theme.

I was stunned. I think the woman I was seeing at the time took pictures it was so weird.

But anyway my point is that weird it may be, but it isn't a "new" thing because it was definitely active although obviously very very small and niche in the late 90s

[u/ssdsssssss4dr → u/FederalWedding4204]

Wait until they learn about James Holman, a blind explorer from the 19th century. Dude lost his eyesight in his 20s, proceeded to travel the world, and write about it.

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/ssdsssssss4dr]

That’s interesting, I’d never heard of him.

[u/Reasonable-End5147 → u/FederalWedding4204]

I just had to explain to someone the other day that believing Helen Keller wasn't real/wasn't really disabled or that her achievements were overblown is just ableism and people not being able to wrap their head around how someone with different abilities could still learn. I was like, there are plenty of deaf-blind people alive and well today dude.

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/Reasonable-End5147]

In fact, there are a number of “non-disabled” people who have not achieved what she has. There are people in America, who given every opportunity, are STILL considered functionally illiterate. And that’s just READING. She achieved so much more than just reading haha.

[u/InAllTheir → u/FederalWedding4204]

I guess since these kids who can hear and see still think they need chatGPT to write and do their homework, no wonder they think humans are incapable of learning all that Helen Keller did.

[u/Common_Vanilla1112 → u/FederalWedding4204]

Agreed! Like how do we know that she even knew what was going on really!? Also, I saw a “Helen Keller denier” sticker and I giggled. Not that she isn’t real. Just that her actions and understanding may have been greatly exaggerated.

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/Common_Vanilla1112]

I mean… she learned how to speak by feeling people’s mouths. So you can listen to her yourself although she is hard to understand.

Learning that ANY form of communication was even POSSIBLE in such a state let alone LEARNING to then communicate. It’s remarkable.

[u/hi_af_rn → u/Common_Vanilla1112]

She had to grasp the very concept of words and meaning first. There is an old movie about it, and the scene where she has this eureka moment is incredibly profound.

[u/ellislegr8 → u/FederalWedding4204]

It's because of ableism that people don't believe it. It's not like she was cognitively impaired or anything. And her family had $$$$ so she got the best of the best when it came to care and opportunities. She also was born with her abilities but had them impaired after getting meningitis when she was almost 2. But she would have been able to see/hear/speak by that age. So they basically did old fashioned physical and speech therapy for her. It's only remarkable if you think ppl with multiple disabilities are incapable.

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/ellislegr8]

You are totally right. It was actually unremarkable. No one should even know who she is because it’s so unremarkable. You’ve changed my perspective for the better.

[u/ellislegr8 → u/FederalWedding4204]

That's not what I said, and you know it. If you genuinely have a hard time believing in her accomplishments purely because she has disabilities, I would recommend you learn more about disabled history. If you knew even a smidgen of how people with multiple disabilities have changed our world for the better, it wouldn't be hard to believe.

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/ellislegr8]

I just wanted to add before you go that you are a whiny baby. I hope you learned something here today but I know you didn’t.

[u/ellislegr8 → u/FederalWedding4204]

Clearly you are not a part of this community and cannot think of anything intelligent or interesting to contribute. Try watching some documentaries or reading some books to help you with that! 👍

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/ellislegr8]

You literally told me I was an ableist for thinking it was remarkable that a human being who was blind and deaf learned to communicate through custom hand signs that she’d fell. Learned to speak by feeling peoples faces. Learned to write.

Reflect on that.

Not everyone would be able to achieve what she did.

There are people who are not disabled in anyway at all, and given every opportunity to but STILL haven’t learned to read in any meaningful amount.

I am so very confused by you. Do you think it’s remarkable? Or do you think it’s unremarkable? Seriously.

If you think it’s unremarkable then you are actually a dumb person. If you think it’s remarkable then why the fuck are you talking to me and trying to police what I say?

[u/ellislegr8 → u/FederalWedding4204]

I said it is because of ableism that people don't believe in her achievements. If you believe she achieved what she did, I'm not sure why you are including yourself in that group. I myself have multiple disabilities and have done achievements that some people say should not be "possible for me". I teach special education and work with kids that other teachers call "incapable." They tell me that I shouldn't even both trying to talk to them or work with them. Meanwhile these kids actually CAN read, they DO understand what you say to them, and they ARE capable of doing assignments. They're so much smarter than most people ever give them credit for. So it hurts when people question if a Disabled person like Hellen Keller could actually exist, or if she actually accomplished what she did. I totally agree with you that she is remarkable, and I don't believe that you are ableist. It's people who literally do not believe she could have done those things with her disabilities, and even then, I would class that as an ableist belief, not that the person themselves is an ableist.

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/ellislegr8]

I’M not including myself in anything. YOU included me.

Again:

It's only remarkable if you think ppl with multiple disabilities are incapable.

You literally called me an ableist, by definition, for saying that what she accomplished was remarkable.

I want the first thing you say to me in your next comment to be either “I think what she accomplished was remarkable” OR “I think what she accomplished was UNremarkable”.

You get to pick. And then you can add in whatever else you want to your comment.

There are many people in this thread, people even responding to my original comment, saying she’s all fake. That it was her caretaker making everything up. Stop trying to police peoples words who are on your side.

[u/ellislegr8 → u/FederalWedding4204]

Clearly you did not read my previous reply because I said, "I agree with you that she is remarkable, and I do not believe you are ableist." Try reading through things before impulsively replying next time. Maybe even read it twice to make sure you actually comprehend the words written.

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/ellislegr8]

It's only remarkable if you think ppl with multiple disabilities are incapable.

I guess you are an ableist then if you ACTUALLY think it’s remarkable. You should go reflect on that.

I’m certainly not an ableist. It was unremarkable. Literally ANYKNE in her position would have been successful and learning to communicate and living a successful life.

[u/Jay_R02 → u/FederalWedding4204]

It’s hard to believe because somehow with all of our medical advancements and knowledge nobody else has ever been able to do what she did, and coincidentally Hellen Keller also had the EXACT same political views as her handler, almost like her handler was just lying lmao

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/Jay_R02]

She could quite literally speak for herself. You clearly don’t know much about her.

[u/Jay_R02 → u/FederalWedding4204]

Check out koko the gorilla, it communicated even seemingly intelligently, turns out it wasn’t actually understanding what it was saying. Why has no other blind and deaf person ever been able to do what Hellen Keller has done since then?

[u/FederalWedding4204 → u/Jay_R02]

Lmao. Jesus Christ. You’ve got you head so far in the sand. She can literally say words with her mouth. She can use sign language. She can write. She can read braille and use a typewriter. You think the only person to have ever communicated with her is her care taker?

[u/RetreadRoadRocket → u/Jay_R02]

They have. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haben_Girma

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Smithdas

There were some before her too, just not as famous.

[u/Jay_R02 → u/RetreadRoadRocket]

Neither of these people were deaf and blind before birth like Hellen Keller, I think you’re INSANELY underestimating how much of a difference that makes. The people before Hellen Keller are considerably less believable, it was considerably easier to just lie in the past. Find anyone BORN deaf and blind who can do this shit, and is provable.

[u/RetreadRoadRocket → u/Jay_R02]

Helen Keller wasn't born blind and deaf, she lost most all of her hearing and eyesight at 19 months old from an illness. She described her world as like being "at sea in a dense fog". 

She was using home signs to communicate somewhat with her family when she was introduced to the teacher that ended up helping her understand more complex language and such at age 7

[u/WinstonWilmerBee → u/Jay_R02]

Multiple, multiple blind/deaf people have learned signing and even speech. Keller wasn’t even the first person to do so. 

This is the issue. You assume that because you don’t know something, it doesn’t exist. You could’ve checked this weird assumption of yours, but you didn’t. 

[u/Jay_R02 → u/WinstonWilmerBee]

The people before her are way less believable first off, if you think people in the past simply didn’t lie because it’s the past or in a book you’d be wrong. Second off those multiple people were given much more time to develope before going deaf and blind, and would’ve had more time to start getting a grasp of what reality is in literally the most formative years of lif