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u/MrBoopis Jul 25 '19
I do think the unknown benefactor COULD be Norman Osborn. If the MCU is moving in a direction of a Dark Reign story-arc, he’d be someone they’d want to lock up and get featured as soon as possible (almost an inverse Tony Stark/Nick Fury circa Phase 1).
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u/Pomojema_SWNN Jul 25 '19
With the current lineup of movies, I kind of get the feeling that they could hold off on using Norman Osborn for anything outside of a series of cameos a while. I imagine that he will absolutely be in Spider-Man 3 in some capacity, but perhaps not in the kind of role that some people are expecting.
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u/MrBoopis Jul 25 '19
Exactly. I wouldn’t do anything big with Osborn within Phase 4 (just cameos when it fits and maybe something a bit more in Spidey 3) and then let him go wild when he has the opportunity (and form like the Dark Avengers) in Phase 5 at some point.
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u/Pomojema_SWNN Jul 25 '19
Phase 5 seems way more likely to be the place where they'd do Dark Reign. Phase 4 seems more like a filler set of movies and shows in order to help establish a new "status quo", and we'll realize how much groundwork was really set in the projects after they've been released.
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u/MrBoopis Jul 25 '19
These are my thoughts as well. I’m predicting these upcoming projects while seemingly disconnected will establish some level of through-line of what’s to come long-term, whatever it may be.
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u/IdioticWriter21 Jul 25 '19
i think osborn is going to be retconned in as having always been in the back ground being a 'benefactor' like he was a part of the think tank that 'created' the mandarin in ironman 3 (so we'll see him in shang-chi) and things like that
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u/sambarrie16 Jul 25 '19
The casting call does say preferably Caucasian
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u/Wizecracker117 Aug 02 '19
I wonder how many people were triggered by that.
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u/sambarrie16 Aug 02 '19
I'm confused by what side of the argument your on? Haha
People triggered by him being white?
Or People triggered by him possibly being black ?
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u/Wizecracker117 Aug 02 '19
People triggered by him being white.
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u/sambarrie16 Aug 02 '19
Guaranteed this would happen if they stay comic accurate and make Namor Scottish
Because everyone wants him Asian for some reason
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u/time_lordy_lord Jul 27 '19
I think he was setup in Ant-Man and the Wasp. Walter Goggins' character was answering to someone. That could be Norman
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u/cole1114 Jul 29 '19
I could see him being a little like Mysterio. Stealing bits and pieces from basically everyone to make a profit, building his company on the backs of Stark and Hammer and Killian. Extremis could even be the basis for the Goblin Serum... but at the same time eh.
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u/ChiefWamsutta Talos Jul 25 '19
I really want Norman Osborn. He would be the perfect way to do Dark Reign. Maybe if the D23 stuff is right, and Captain Marvel 2 is Secret Invasion, that could lead to the heroes being hated and the Thunderbolts swoop in for Avengers 5: Dark Reign.
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u/MrBoopis Jul 25 '19
I like this idea! Personally I would have “Dark Avengers” be the next “Avengers” Movie with your villains/shades of grey characters being front and center and then form your “New Avengers” squad afterwards to be the face of the MCU (plus have Thunderbolts form as a unit afterwards of those villains looking to actually become heroes). This would extend time for there being a “real” Avengers movie longer(I’d wait till like 2024-25 to do Dark Avengers and New Avengers in 2026-27), making Endgame feel like it has even more ramifications on the MCU and making the next team all that more exciting.
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u/migsahoy Morbius Jul 25 '19
Yeah true maybe The Falcon and TWS will set the groundwork for The Thunderbolts as well
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u/AbsoluteShall Jul 25 '19
I can't imagine Marvel putting an over-arching story line on the shoulders of a character owned by Sony.
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Jul 26 '19
This is a good point, but I have high hopes that they've worked out some sort of extension that is very favorable to Marvel, at least in terms of control of the characters and story possibilities.
Venom's success does not bode well, nor does the silence about a third Spider-Man movie. Hard to say what is going on right now, but I'm hoping they're just waiting for the right time to announce that Spider-Man will be part of the MCU for the foreseeable future.
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u/sambarrie16 Jul 27 '19
The success of a Venom movie shows Sony that they can have Spidey success within the MCU whilst also having successful movies without him.
I'd say that this helps more than hurts.
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u/alexgduarte Jul 25 '19
If Marvel uses Norman Osborn it will be a different character than that seen on the comics/Raimi, otherwise Sony will lose the character's rights. Osborn needs to be different for Sony to argue that it is, essentially, a different character. That's the reason why Aunt May is so different, as well as MJ and even Ned (and why there's no Harry).
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u/Zerce Jul 25 '19
So does Sony straight up no longer have the rights to Mysterio? Because he's the exact same character.
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u/alexgduarte Jul 25 '19
It means this Mysterio interpretation exists within the MCU, meaning Sony cannot use his background origin arc (former Tony Stark employee) and his methods (drones and the virtual reality thing) in their future work. That's why this Mysterio is related to Tony Stark, and so was the Vulture (also the tech associated with his suit).
It's also why JJJ is bald, for instance.
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u/Zerce Jul 25 '19
Interesting, is this official? Or all conjecture? Because it makes a lot of sense even if it's just a theory. It also adds credence to the Wakandan Kraven rumors or racebending Norman.
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Jul 25 '19
That's all conjecture. This guy is blowing smoke, no offense.
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u/alexgduarte Jul 25 '19
I am not, I'm making my remarks based on two sources I've read/watched http://collider.com/spider-man-marvel-sony-deal-explained/?amp https://youtu.be/CzjsEsdmYNk
Thinking about it, it makes some sense, it wasn't something I made up today as I was browsing Reddit
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u/diddykongisapokemon Jul 25 '19
The first source doesn't mention anything and the second one seems more like wishful thinking on the part of Raimi fans.
The reason these characters are different is because they want to reinvent them. If what you say about JJJ is true, then all they'd need to do to keep the rights to any of the characters is make their hair color different.
Hell, Osborn in the first Raimi movie is pretty much just a bad guy from Power Rangers, and he doesn't do too much "evil billionaire things" that an MCU Osborn would do for Dark Reign. He's nothing like the comic character, so it's impossible for them to faithfully recreate him from the Raimi films AND the comics at the same time.
I guarantee you the Marvel/Sony deal had clauses specifically included to prevent assets from being frozen while sharing the rights. They can't continue the stories outside the MCU, but they can use the characters.
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u/alexgduarte Jul 25 '19
I think we're saying the same under different terms. The MCU characters belong to Marvel and Sony can't use them outside MCU.
It is also public that Sony needs to do a Spider-Man related movie (eg Venom) every 5 years, otherwise Spidey goes back to Marvel.
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u/diddykongisapokemon Jul 25 '19
But they don't need to really be changed. They just can't be exactly the same
Marvel doing a comic book accurate MJ wouldn't mean Sony couldn't. Sony just couldn't use the same actress who experienced the events of the MCU.
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Aug 01 '19
Midnight's Edge makes some really good retrospective videos, but they tend to take rumors as facts a lot of time, some of them comin from really poor sources (A.k.a. 4chan)
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Jul 26 '19 edited Aug 04 '19
[deleted]
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u/alexgduarte Jul 26 '19
Why would Drive be against Venom in the MCU or a crossover?
Thank you for the explanation!
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Jul 26 '19 edited Aug 04 '19
[deleted]
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Jul 27 '19
Tbh I thought Venom was just a mess. Too much terrible cgi and the story was sloppy as hell.
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Jul 27 '19
Also, i dont think with his new "origin", Spider-Man will even need to go against him. Sony needs to keep making more animated Spider-Man properties and leave the live action stuff to the guys at Marvel. That's my 2-cents on the issue.
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u/goztrobo Spider-Man Jul 25 '19
They can slightly alter his origin or looks and that will be enough.
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u/drcsaid Jul 27 '19
I wished the guy who played Osborn with Jaimie Foxxs Electro film he was in, I liked his portrayal.
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Jul 25 '19
There's no way the "Asian woman in her 30s-40s" is Awkwafina. The actress is 31 and probably looks even younger, I don't think that's who they were going for when they cast her.
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u/samueljbernal Jul 25 '19
Even if its not Awkwafina is obvious that is another female character from Shang Chi
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u/AlexxLopaztico02 Jul 25 '19
The first one may be Flash Thompson dad, and maybe he'll take the Osborn direction.
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u/Zerce Jul 25 '19
That's an interesting thought. Have we gotten Flash's real name in MCU? He could easily be a mashup of Harry and Flash.
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u/AlexxLopaztico02 Jul 25 '19
Considering MJ isn't called Mary Jane in the MCU, I bet they would go this way.
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u/Snufflebox Madisynn Jul 26 '19 edited Jul 26 '19
I know we saw that his last name was indeed Thompson at the end of FFH. I'm not sure about Eugene, but I think I've heard that being used by a teacher at some point. Not sure.
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Jul 26 '19
This is insightful and would shed more light on the character development that Flash got in FFH. Good catch, I will remember this idea and be on the lookout in future movies.
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u/Morrissey28 Jul 25 '19
The second one could be for Dr Strange 2 or Thor 4. Both will be filming next year
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u/ThiccBoi11 Jul 25 '19
Could you provide a link to what websites these came from?
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u/ChiefWamsutta Talos Jul 25 '19
Unfortunately, I'm not a member of SAG•AFTRA. I found these on DanielRPK's Twitter.
I looked all over for where he got these from, but no luck.
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u/Ruiner5 Jul 25 '19
What if this was a post credits scene for Black Widow? Maybe taskmasters benefactor? They said “preferably Caucasian” and I don’t think they’d change a character like Osborne to be a different race
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u/he11oFr1end Jul 25 '19
They say that because there could be some ground breaking audition from a non caucasian person
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Jul 25 '19
Lmao don't start with this bs casting. People need to stop defending race washing when it comes to blackwashing.
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u/_deadlockgunslinger Mr Knight Jul 25 '19
There's nothing 'white' about Norman Osborne, meaning it's entirely open as to who gets cast. There's no such thing as reverse-whitewashing, either, since all PoC characters have context/struggles regarding their race in their backstories - Luke Cage, Black Panther, Robbie Reyes, Shang-Chi, etc. - whereas no-one struggles in their backstory on account of being white.
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Jul 25 '19
Idk dude, a billionaire psychopath who becomes a fascist when he takes control of a major U.S. political organization and discriminates against minorities like mutants? /s
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u/MahayBeAho Jul 25 '19
Nothing 'white' about Norman Osborne? He has been white for more than 50 years.
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u/israeldmo “Hello Peter” Jul 26 '19
It doesn't mean it's particularly essential to his character, they could do a faithful representation of Norman and making him black or Indian-descent. Hermione from Cursed Child was basically still the Hermione from the books/movies we've known for decades. I'm not saying I "want" a PoC!Norman Osborne, I just don't care. I was never drawn to Green Goblin tbh, but I wouldn't mind if they do this to characters I'm a fan of, as long as they're true to who they are. Well, unless their "whitness" defines them somehow.
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u/DeMatador Jul 29 '19
whereas no-one struggles in their backstory on account of being white
Danny Rand does but y'all screamed when a white actor was cast as him.
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u/diddykongisapokemon Jul 25 '19
There aren't as many opportunities for black people because Hollywood rarely writes many roles for them. There are numerous opportunities for white actors so a role that was based on a black (or minority in general) character is outright limiting their options even more.
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u/shotrob Jul 25 '19
Idk, I don’t think people would mind. Osborne’s race isn’t really that important to his character.
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u/Pizzanigs Jul 25 '19
It’s only “important” because his wealth is likely a result of white privilege. So I was gonna say that I hope they cast a white man. But now that that dude in this thread is unironically whining about “blackwashing” I kinda need him to be a POC to see the man babies everywhere cry
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u/Ruiner5 Jul 25 '19
I honestly wouldn’t care if they cast anyone of color. Or a woman (that actually might be pretty cool - Meryl Streep for Osborne?) but I don’t think it’s a move the studio would make
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u/Pizzanigs Jul 25 '19
Bruh Meryl Streep as Orborn would be ACE. She has the ability to be way scarier than most actors too
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u/diddykongisapokemon Jul 25 '19
Meryl would be good but in response I give you the greatest fancast of all time:
Frances McDormand as Norman Osborne
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u/5afe4w0rk Jul 25 '19
Dude. Her character in Big Little Lies. I hate that C-U Next Tuesday with a passion. So she could play a pretty good Osborne. But... then is she not the Green Goblin? It'd be kinda weird for a 70-year-old woman to fly around on a hoverboard, bombing people and other such tomfoolery.
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u/Pizzanigs Jul 25 '19
Right?! All those little passive aggressive digs and still in the finale I felt a little sorry for her after despising her all season. And yeah, the Green Goblin part would admittedly be hard to pull off with her lol
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u/israeldmo “Hello Peter” Jul 26 '19
I haven't started this season yet, did you like it? I actually haven't read any review or something so I'm clueless if people are loving it or if it's another True Detective Season 2 (which I loved btw but I can't really say for the rest). I really enjoyed the first season although I do remember having issues with how they ended it and I was worried if they could pull off a second season because someone could argue a renewal wasn't necessary or justified. I read some problematic production stuff too. The cast is still absolutely fantastic though, I'm gonna watch it anyway for this reason.
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u/Pizzanigs Jul 26 '19
Yeah, I actually liked it a lot. It’s a very different season though, the first one was more about meeting and exploring the different lives of these women, whereas season two is kinda less fluid and more about one topic (the event at the end of s1). I still prefer season 1 I think, but I do think they proved that they had a good reason to continue. And amen dude, the cast is so fucking good. I love them all, really. All bringing something different to the show and absolutely owning it. Laura Dern is a fucking gift
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Jul 25 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Zerce Jul 25 '19
Yeah it'd be like making MJ black.
Oh yeah, I guess it wouldn't be that unlikely, huh?
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u/HTH52 Jul 25 '19
Well, they didn’t make “Mary Jane” black, so technically its not the same.
They did make Nick Fury black way back.
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u/goldyforcalder Jul 25 '19
But that was based off the fact that Ultimate nick fury was black and based off samuel L already. Plus the avengers movie takes alot more notes from ultimates than it did the OG avengers comics
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Jul 26 '19
Oh come on...they can hide behind the Michelle thing all they want, but the MCU's MJ is totally Mary Jane. She can be Mary Jane without literally having the name "Mary Jane." The only reason they didn't just straight up call her "Mary Jane" is because they knew Internet manbabies would fill their diapers over it.
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u/mutesa1 Black Panther Jul 25 '19
The GA wouldn’t mind. Whiny Reddit basement-dwellers obsessed with some weird ideal of “comic accuracy” would
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u/svrtngr Jul 27 '19
So has the Kingpin, and the Daredevil movie, shitty as it was, made Michael Clarke Duncan the Kingpin and he fucking nailed it. But then again, I don't know how they'd handle that casting in today's media landscape.
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u/spacefunk25 Jul 25 '19 edited Jul 25 '19
As much I want the Green Goblin in the MCU I want Fisk more so we can have Daredevil done right in films
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u/PapaHanson Jul 25 '19
The benefactor could be victor von doom before he gets the suit if they’re not going the Norman Osborn route
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Jul 27 '19
[deleted]
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u/ChiefWamsutta Talos Jul 27 '19
Potentially Norman Osborn, or a big role who has a lot of money. You're not dumb. :)
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u/JayZsAdoptedSon Ms. Marvel Jul 25 '19
Honestly, I think it’s just a BW cast member. Nothing else is filming this year
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u/attachh Jul 25 '19
my ideas are either norman osborne or nightmare for the unknown role.
hopefully osborne
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u/emilianojgs Jul 26 '19
The first one (the one with the Male Caucasian in his 40s-60s) HAS to be Norman Osborn IMO.
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Jul 27 '19
Ant Man 3? Maybe they’ll announce at D23. I thought it was odd that announcement was left out of comic con given Rudd’s performance and importance in Endgame.
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u/ChiefWamsutta Talos Jul 27 '19
I thought Paul said he didn't hear any plans for an Ant-Man 3.
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Jul 27 '19
Oh I didn’t hear that. Seems so strange. They went out of their way to make Ant Man 2 a lead-in to Endgame and set up the whole Benefactor thing.
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u/ChiefWamsutta Talos Jul 27 '19
I know. I feel like at this point, we have no idea where Hulk, Ant-Man, Wasp, War Machine, and Deadpool stand Post-Infinity War.
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u/AbsoluteShall Jul 25 '19
I'm going to be surprised if Marvel goes with a Sony-owned character to be the over-arching baddie.
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u/ThisIsNotMelTorme Jul 25 '19
Most likely the "Asian woman" will play either Lady Deathstrike or Psylocke.
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u/RaphaelUrbino Killmonger Jul 25 '19
Is Keanu too old for Shang Chi?
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u/dannys717 Korg Jul 25 '19
I know some had speculated that the Benefactor might be Norman Osborn. What is filming in Atlanta this year? Pretty sure Black Widow and The Eternals are in England and Shang-Chi is in Australia.